s.HK, stagger, s.HK, stagger = too good, IMO

Is the stagger an opener? I don’t remember.

Edited my post above and answered your question.

@developers What are your thoughts on this setup?

I’m actually ok with it. It makes kan unique and it’s not like the setup is THAT reliable imo.

He’s been able to reset me with it repeatedly in the corner though.

Standing Hk into command grab into recapture is fine. Ant lion is a projectile so it makes sense as an unbreakable. Dunno if Standing Hk is a projectile. Will test. Standing Hk into command grab recapture is nice an all but I rather use a charged tornado after a command grab for an unblockable reset. Much more fun . Doesn’t Standing Hk build a lot of KV?

Al of them should be breakable…Eyedol, Kan-ra, tusk, Shago… more than 2 hits… the 3rd should be breakable.

It is so boring to sit there and watch Eyedol do that damn lightening thing 3 x in a row 10x per match.

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Well the move itself is very slow.

Well it is a projectile. That and it does laughable damage.

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Should Jago’s fireballs be breakable in instinct? Should Fulgore’s fireball loops be breakable? Should 2 shadow fireballs be breakable? Projectiles shouldn’t be breakable. Plus scaling lol.

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Tell that to maya and ARIA. :frowning:

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For Maya, the projectiles aren’t breakable. When used up close, they aren’t considered projectiles. You got me on Aria though.

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As an Omen player, I don’t understand why you’d be advocating for breakable projectiles. Unless you’re talking about staggers, in which case, Eyedol’s isn’t a stagger. This honestly just sounds like salt talking, considering Eyedol’s multi-bolt combo is only worth 11% with no option to cashout. Pretty much everything Omen can get up to with Rasha/EX Orda is better than multi-bolt, with better oki/setup options to boot. Just block low, and react to the Meteor. Those Eyedol’s apparently don’t have much else going for them in Mage, and with how minus Bolt is on block, you should be able to go on offense after blocking the first.

I do think it’s weird that the stagger=opener rule doesn’t seem to apply to this particular Kan-Ra combo though. It makes sense that the st.HK’s wouldn’t be breakable (if they’re projectiles), but after the second stagger it seems to me that the grab should be breakable. A telegraphed break-point (and thus counterbreak bait), sure, but breakable nonetheless.

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"Should be breakable"
Ehh… kinda…
I think it should stay the way it is. Its kinda hard to hit an opponent with the sand punt in the first place.

Just sayin. :wink:

If a character has a projectile normal it functions as a hybrid normal/special. But it follows the same rules as normal normals. 3 hit rule, breakable in combos etc etc.

Projectile normals are breakable with other characters though. Aria’s mks are breakable, and they made her grenades breakable in the last patch. So it’s not like they can’t make a projectile breakable.

So is the problem that St.Hk isn’t breakable. According to the rule, the 3rd hit is breakable so Ra has to do 3 S.Hks for it to be breakable which you are getting blown out anyway. I don’t see the point.

Not all staggers are openers, some are specifically set to be openers but it isn’t a universal rule. Several characters have staggers that aren’t openers.

Tusk can still do multiple staggers mid combo, he just can’t do multiple stagger enders in the same combo (well you actually can if you spend meter as a second stagger ender doesn’t cause an automatic blowout like wallsplat enders do). However he is still free to chain staggers mid combo but doesn’t get what is essentially unbreakable linkers which cash out anymore.

Some projectiles are breakable (mostly ones which operate more like a regular attack but just happen to be projectiles, such as Riptor flame attacks and the initial breath of Kan Ra swarms) and Kan Ra’s far HK is a breakable projectile (and operates more like a regular attack than a normal projectile). So far HK being a projectile isn’t what’s causing this, it is just that the initial stagger isn’t an opener.

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ARIA’s shotgun buttons aren’t normal projectiles (But still follow most of the same rules strike normals do). And her grenades…shouldn’t be breakable but they are because they are.

Nobody’s come up with a solution yet to the specific setup that I’ve mentioned…

s.HK, s.HK, command grab, antlion, into whatever (16%d);
or
s.HK, s.HK, l.scorpion tail (12%d, curse, AND fullscreen knockback)

Both are really good for different reasons, and as far as I can tell, once hit, completely unavoidable/unblockable/unbreakable.

EDIT: It’s possible to shadow counter his s.HK, but it requires really strict timing and does nothing for you if he hits or you misstime it.

Solution? Block it or hold it. You could hold up for fear of delayed grab, I guess. As you mention, SC is an option. I recommend watching your replays to see why you’re getting hit with the first st.HK in the first place. Is there a frame trap you’re falling for?