Rollback netcode ...maybe there is hope after GGST beta

Yesterday the Guilty Gear Strive beta ended.
For those who were not aware ArcSys implemented rollback netcode between last year’s beta and this year’s.

Many were ecstatic with how good the connections were. Network access and server connection issues aside, the netcode performed well as most KI folks have experienced for years.

After the japanese developers roundtable, also last weekend, there is pressure from players on SNK to announce rollback netcode for KOFXV (they have been only implementing this for smaller older titles thus far). At the roundtable there was good discussion from Bamco and ArcSys but SNK devs were quiet during this discussion topic. So some new hashtags to get SNK to step up there game started trending (nobody knows if they already have any kind of plans).

Bottom line, many japanese players experienced good netcode perhaps for the first time with a major title. I was not a Guilty Gear fan or player but I actually joined the beta for all 6 days. Thoroughly enjoyed the online experience, so I’m hopeful for GG Strive at least.

Also after the GGST beta, you could participate in a survey. Interestingly, KI was mentioned as an option to a question related to what fighting game you regularly play. Good stuff!


@BigBadAndy @Iago407 @STORM179 just tagging some people lol

It has certainly been very interesting to watch. I think ArcSystemWorks should be congratulated (and rewarded) for making this decision. It remains baffling that they didn’t see skullgirls ten years ago and realize that this should be a priority for them. Too bad it’s not coming to Xbox as history tells me I won’t spend much time playing fighting games on my PC.

As far as SNK, I’m forever being reminded about how insulated the decision makers at Japanese developers are from the community and from negative feedback within the company. I hope they get it together, but frankly I have my doubts. Likewise for Bamco. Harada has made some Harada style statements (approximately “that’s great for other games but Tekken is too… something something… not possible”). This is clearly just bad advice and no one internally speaking up to say “yes we could” at the risk of upsetting the bosses who have made the same bad choice over and over again. Hopefully that changes.

I put something to that effect in the open comment section of the survey. Basically, I referenced to them KI, and that this game has been around for years and is famous for its netcode. Finished off by saying that ASW has wasted these past years, and in effect their games too, and they could have had a larger, more loyal player base by now.

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At the very least I hope this carries over to ArcSys’s other series. Aside from the bad lobby system the GG Strive beta played great. I’m crossing my fingers for Under-Night next.

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SNK tweeted this today:

It’s a positive sign, but there’s a couple of red flags. First, the idea that it’s an internally developed rollback solution. Long story short, this is what killed SFV’s online. There are off the shelf rollback solutions available but for some reason Japanese developers insist on recreating the wheel. The other red flag for me is “no promises.” This suggests SNK is not fully committed to the idea.

If they have a couple of guys sitting in a back room trying to invent rollback, and aren’t really considering it a necessary milestone in the games development, then they are going to find a reason to say “no, too hard” and just tack on the delay based system they have been using.

I’m seeing a lot of “great, now let’s talk about something else” in social media. I think that’s exactly why SNK announced it. But I think that’s the worst possible response. They have now said they are working on it so fans need to let them know that “we tried” is t going to be enough. They need to deliver.

Yeah I can’t remember who it was, maybe Keits, or Max… But I believe in the BringBackKI tournament recently, there was a section during one of the breaks where someone talked about rollback netcode; what it is, what it does, how it’s not that difficult to implement, but there is such a thing as bad rollback and that it’s not all created equally, and to not judge rollback based on the worst of what we’ve seen.

I could be completely misremembering where I saw that, but the point still remains. Whatever put the idea in Harada’s head that rollback isn’t good or that it’s not something Tekken should do… They need to get with the times, and by “the times” I mean ten years ago. Just because some have tried it and been terrible with it, doesn’t mean your game shouldn’t have it, you just have to do it better, even if that means consulting with outside companies (instead of trying to do it yourself) on how they successfully implemented it.

As for GG Strive, I’m intrigued. I didn’t get in to the beta, but watching the character breakdowns, there were a few that definitely looked interesting to me. I played a bit of Xrd, but it never really grabbed me. Maybe getting in on the ground floor when there’s only 15 characters might help…

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@Iago407 I loved the rev2 training mode, but in the end I just didn’t like all that jumping around and air dashing… that’s until I played Strive. I think I got up in the hype of the game being played worldwide and I basically had to give it another shot to see if I wasn’t getting too annoyed by all the jumping… Ended playing Axl and used an anti air / counter attack/ poking from afar-style of play :joy: Never had so much fun with an ASW game just hitting people out of the air lol.

The character variety is definitely there, I must admit but I literally had to play an anti-meta game to enjoy Strive. But I admit that I really enjoyed the beta and its gameplay too, which I was most anxious about (any glaring balance issues aside of course). If you could try it out first that may be the safer option.

@BigBadAndy the words “internal solution” really spook me :scream:
I just wrote a tweet back in Japanese saying exactly what you said: “don’t reinvent the wheel. Look at Capcom and how they messed up their rollback netcode with their homebrew, proprietary stuff.”

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I have to say, it’s tough not to get hype for the game. It really is gorgeous to look at. Sucks that there’s no cross play with PC and it isn’t coming to Xbox.

After all the complaining that they were “dumbing it down for casuals” it seems like they did a good job cleaning up some of the all over the place nature of the game so that it’s easier to tell what the heck is going on.

I also have to say I was impressed with Giovanna as a new character design. Really interesting with the spirit wolf and not a cringey sex doll design, which I can get behind. I may have to pick this up on PC.

Edit: also, right on for your tweet. This has all the odor of a “leave us alone, but no we aren’t doing it.”

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Hopefully by “internal solution” they just mean building their own base, as opposed to adapting GGPO or something.

Strive is fun. So far everyone seems to agree that, compared to Xrd/Rev2, it’s been streamlined substantially and the nutty stuff has been put in check, but it’s to good effect making it an accessible entry point into the series while still keeping a good amount of depth.

The biggest complaint is the hamfisted pixel-hub lobby system, which takes the place of direct matchmaking and doesn’t let players rematch without queueing up again, on top of being generally laggy and unreliable. But beyond that 95% of my matches were smooth.


I honestly forgot about GGS until stumbling upon it again in the Steam store. I played the previous GG games very casually but am interested in giving this one an honest shot.

Another game I had high hopes of playing online and making videos about was Samurai Showdown. I think the game is very good, but the online experience is awful. Takes forever to get into a match and when you DO find a match, it’s un-fun due to heavy input lag.

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Yeah, Samurai Shodown is the game that I am most interested in that has suffered the most from poor netcode. The game is really fun and different than other games I play. But it simply doesn’t work online.


And in other news, apparently, Samurai shodown has its series X upgrade to 120hz released a week early lol !

No info about rollback netcode though lol

Looking pretty likely ArcSys is going to use rollback from now on.

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This is very good news

For what it’s worth, the first japanese samurai shodown tournament on series X is today. Starts in 45 minutes. Will be very small as only a handful of players.
twitch. tv/vsnetstream

How’s the tournament go?

There seem to be some rollback rumors swirling around Melty Blood of all things. Anybody know what that’s about?

I’m not a GG player, but have always enjoyed watching. I tried Xrd, but the online was so bad I couldn’t get into it. But hearing all the positive sentiments on GGS online and watching the game play, I’m definitely going to try it out… and drop SFV.