This was quite unnecessary, as you can see above, that I already halted the discussion.
From what I understand, Double Helix decided to be more culturally sensitive and stir away from the stereotype due to alot of the backlash Thunder’s design got back in the day. I see nothing wrong in their decision.
Being a gay guy myself, I have learned to have alot of self-irony and not take myself too seriously, and I have grown used to see he LGBT community being usually the butt of stereotypical comedy in media rather than being represented respectfully… but I shouldn’t have to get used to that. We are all people and we all deserve to be respected as people. Whether it’s race, culture, skin-colour, sexuality and what not, I think it’s important to represent those things correctly if you are going to represent it at all.
Considering how much Native Americans have been through, their people slaughtered as “the white man” took over their lands, and their people being so oppressed and seen as “lower people” than everyone else, then yes, I do think it is important that when representing them in media it has to be done right!
Again, I doubt Rare was being insensitive on purpose - they just designed what they thought was a cool character - but ignorance is no longer an excuse. Double Helix knew this and did their research before remaking Thunder.
No, I don’t like his retro costume, I DO like his original design tons more, but I completely understand the decision why they omitted it from the game.
Thunders retro discussion has kind of been done to death, even precluding an unnecessary hairsplitting debate over the difference between racism, stereotyping and cultural insensitivity. His original design went as far as they could possibly go in terms of being offensive, on purpose in order to be “edgy” in 1995. It isn’t going to fly in 2013. “But it was cool!” Frankly, it wasn’t cool but that’s irrelevant. No matter how many tantrums people throw on the forum they aren’t bringing it back.
As far as the poll, I think it’s really interesting that the results are generally positive, but the thread is still filled with people complaining. The Gargos retro that inspired the discussion has 75% of people saying great or perfect. Certainly a lesson in negative messages on the Internet. The negative impressions are amplified by the same small number of people complaining over and over again - as if their complaints are a public service. Since there isn’t a single example of MS making a change to a retro after release I’m dumbfounded by the insistence that somehow this is important “feedback” to make the game better. But hey, it’s a free world.
The retro that I think is underrated the most is Aria’s. It’s so perfectly Art Deco, 1940’s sci fi throwback. I don’t think they could have done any better with that, even though it doesn’t look like something I would expect to have seen in 95.
Although I like a lot Aria’s retro, I think they lost the chance to make the hands down best retro ever: Make Aria like a female Fulgore.
I mean, in the original KI, Fulgore was basically the Ultratech poster imagen. A female version of this robot would be mandatory in order to give some “Corporative image”
Her blade body would be a Fulgore’s plasma sword, the ponytail could have a long hair accesories, stuff like that
I’m sure they had no intentions on anything racist at the time. If theyf elt it was, they would not have done it.
I think the Mohawk Thunder was inspired by a native American character in dances with the wolves. Though some may think it had to do with the chanting since Some individuals have had Mohawks in their tribes.
@BigBadAndy
Now I do have to admit. when they brought in the default Riptor and showed what she was capable of and the movement on her tail. I was very impressed. But I also hoped the tail was not segmented either at the time. Though I never expressed it publicly because a little bit of me knew it was going to segmented.
Once I saw that, I knew it had to with the bone rig on the model. So I got over it quickly. It didn’t really bother me much anyway. But Ion one hand, I do love how they did the anklets for Riptor. It show show out of control they can be.
Heck I even drew a few images that had the same kind of anklets though the Riptor design was a little different.
Those are great drawings. I actually think Riptor is a pretty extreme example, but a good one. Her default model just isn’t built anything like her retro design - which was more a “dude walking with his shoulders hunched forward” than anything resembling a dinosaur. I know people love the old Riptor, and that’s fine. But it’s hard to call it a stellar example of excellence on the part of the original modelers.
Her retro is clearly an imperfect “best attempt” to emulate the original. It is a compromise. But in the poll it gets really high marks. What baffles me is that something that is a much, much, better approximation of the original - Jago’s retro, actually gets lower ratings. People complain about his hair and the spacing on his shirt rips. Okay…
I buy this a lot. Jago’s retro its 100% original Jago IMO new Jago its 10000 times better, but only because retro Jago is… well, its the original Jago! Its outdated, not a bad retro design(like lets say,Wulf, for example). Jago its done exactly as he was… ridiciculous
Dude, you are so wrong on this. Native American/ Indian is absolutely a race. So is Alaskan Eskimo, and several other races you probably think are not a race. I would just stop commenting on it if I were you.
i dont remember any bad feedback? This was an arcade game… it was mega massive untill it hit the Snes and im sure they didnt get complaints?
Not get used too no. But equally no woman should have to get used to living a life where her gaming representations are all tall good looking and well endowed. its the same stereotype because its a fictional word. One is not better than the other.
Everyone has been thought something havent they? My heritage goes back to Romani Gypsy witch means i could be offended by everything in Europe and beyond but im not lol. This is a fantasy game and i dont believe this would have been SO disrespectful that it would have cause deep upset.
i agree with you, i like his new design better its more authentic but i dont believe the original one was offensive and if it was then id say that these people need to take a chill pill and understand fiction a little more
one day we will all feel sorry for the Homo heidelbergensis man bacause the Neanderthal wiped him out?
life moves on horrible things happen and people interpret our culture in art in different ways. Its not meant to be factual its meant to be retro.
This is an opinion, nothing else. You don’t think it was cool, fair enough. But others do, and you do not get to decide what is and what is not considered cool.
And gender too! Thanks. ^^
I believe one of the reasons Thunder wasn’t in KI2 is because of bad feedback. I would need to look into it further to make sure though.
Oversexualized female characters is also one of the things that alot of people critisize the game industry for. You’re right about that.
Has your heritage been misrepresented in a game or other media where it was ridiculed? Fair enough if you don’t care about it, but that doesn’t make it alright.
Props to WandaMaximoff for making this topic, I will surely make a video about this topic based on my thoughts and impression based on the original KI cast.
you might be right