… But why not, really?
So from day one, or rather, when the very first retro costumes were revealed to us, we noticed that they might be alike the original costumes from past games, but with a few changes… Orchid had thigh-high boots, Jago kept the undercut from his main, Glacius still had a really large neck, Sabrewulf kinda looks like a big rat… and then there’s Thunder’s, but that is another topic entirely in itself.
However, with those costumes it’s been shown that the developers have more or less re-imagined the retro costumes rather than simply make them as exact to the original costumes from the past games. They still kinda look like them, but with a few changes here and there.
Personally, I’m fine with it. And I’ve come to accept that the retro costumes won’t ever be exactly like their past counterparts. There are people who have a really hard time accepting that and who keep expecting the retro costumes to be exact copies, which just mean they set themselves up for disappointment every time.
But I can’t help but think why the devs made this decision. I mean, they could make the retro costumes exactly like the past ones… so why didn’t they? Again, with Thunder… we’ve already gotten an explanation why they couldn’t make his retro alike his KI1 counterpart, whether people wish to believe them or not is irrelevant at this point. But why the small changes in all the others’ retro costumes?
What do you guys think?
Do you prefer the re-imagined retro outfits?
Would you prefer if they looked like exact copies of the past costumes?
And why do you guys think is the reason for them not being such?
[quote=“TheIncubusLord, post:1, topic:6110”]
with Thunder… we’ve already gotten an explanation why they couldn’t make his retro alike his KI1 counterpart
[/quote]Actually they could, They just want to be a big pain in the you know what! And if they won’t do it, The modders will. And yes I’d prefer the retros look exactly as they did in the past it can be done.
It must be TRUELY hard to be a developer. To know, whatever action you take, there is always a consequence behind it. Knowing that what ever you do, everyone is watching, ready to criticize, and walking that thin rope of the consumer market.
(Not Directed toward anyone)
In some cases, I feel like the retro costumes are on par or even better than the originals, others…Fulgore comes to mind… are just bad. I understand why Thunder’s original costume wasn’t remade, & that pretty much gave them a free pass to make the others different where they might have wanted to change something. But Thunder’s and Fulgore’s retros are probably the ones I dislike the most…
Fulgore’s is ok aside from the head is all wrong…his body is nearly straight-up KI2 but the head doesn’t match. It looks kinda derpy.
Thunder…well, I just really don’t like the artistic direction they went with with him. Why not a different Native American style for his retro? His default was Nez Perce…why not maybe Sioux, or Apache? Or they could have even just had a few old popular KI Tshirts (such as the one in my avatar pic) & jeans for him.
Close enough on most of them. Jago’s retro should be a dark blue-gray and not bright, sky blue though.
I have come to accept that “Retro Costume” is a fancy way of saying “Alternative outfit occasionally based loosely on the old costumes, though sometimes not even close.”
Which is actually fine with me. They’re obviously giving us updated/modernized versions of the retro looks. This has been the trend since S1. It’s nice to have those options… I wouldn’t mind fewer goofy accessories, but that’s personal taste.
I used to do a bit of Sculpting in Autodesk 3DS Max back in High School for Game Design Class. My Friend and I were making a sort of Animation. We made a short, small scene, and put our character, being chased by a Undercover Agent in a Subway. We had it working properly, untill we decided to make our main character with more muscular and bulky proportions. We set out to tweak the bone rig, and make it work. Unfortunately, it took a lot of time to make the bone rig react properly & efficiently like we wanted it to. All sorts of glitches and bugs came with rigging it differently. We tried desperately to fix it under a deadline, but ultimately gave up and went back to the old rig, as having a rig, then tweaking it and trying to make it work is harder than it looks. I can imagine if IG went to go to the original Rigs, and tweak them like those pictures that are floating around. There would be all sorts of Collision Detection problems, Clipping, Wonky animations and everything else that comes with bugs. It’s more of a hassle to change an existing rig and apply it to a game that is made for that rig, than to make one from scratch. It would take away from a lot of Development Time.
Just saying. My two cents.
There’s three reasons why the retro’s don’t look exactly like the old costumes. Two of them have already been mentioned here:
1: All or part of the original costumes are offensive (Thunder, butt floss on female characters etc.)
2. The bone rig and general shape of the modern character doesn’t match the shape of the original, so adjustments have to be made (Fulgore; Glacius’s neck etc.)
3. Aspects of the older designs simply don’t translate well into a modern 3d game and would look stupid. For evidence of this, look at the picture perfect retros for Ken and Ryu in SFV wearing their SF Alpha costumes. They look like ■■■
EDIT: You know it’s funny, people never complain about inaccuracies for things that look ridiculous on the original. Kim Wu’s KI 2 head is completely disproportionate to her body and looks enormous. It looks like she has a developmental abnormality - but no one seems to notice.
I think there’s even another one:
These people are artists. Creatives. They always have to put their own spin on things. It’s on their DNA. They’ll never make an exact copy on anything. What’s the challenge then?
They’ll do this even if it does not sit well with some fans. “We make the content, we make the rules” I’m afraid.
Kim Wu’s isn’t exactly like the original but it’s very close and more importantly it looks GOOD. If the quality of the retro is high and its aesthetically pleasing to look at I don’t care if it’s not an exact copy. IG (or Bayliss or whoever) did a great job on her overall retro look, one of the best yet.
However Wulf and Fulgores retros just look bad…very low quality while at the same time not even resembling their KI1 (or 2) looks. Wulf looks like a lazy eyed rat on bath salts and Fulgore looks like a fat kid in a Halloween costume.
His body isn’t bad…it’s pretty much spot-on his KI2 bod…the the head is the real issue there…& there’s no way his weird concave faceplate is a fitting the rig issue…his non-retro outfit is normal enough.
It’s the bone Rigs guys, other than that, they are Nearly Exact Retros.
I personally wish they were all very close to the original outfits and styles. But Im not complaining about it. It would be nice if Tusks retro was an exact copy of his original…I have a feeling its not going to be even close.
They can have the new bone rig or what have you…but the clothes and colors should be near identical. (Like Cinder)
Having experience with 3D modelling and animation myself, I do get what you mean with bone-rigging.
However, that doesn’t explain why Orchid’s boots are thigh-highs instead of knee-highs like in the original. It doesn’t explain why Kim Wu now have knee-protectors. Stuff like that, which has nothing to do with the model’s size or proportion, but are rather simple design choices.
Right. Most of the things people want is better models. For the most part, S1 Retros are near exact, just some rigging that makes certain characters silly. But as for the design choices… That’s something that we might have to ask the Devs one day.
Nice to see a fellow sculpter! ^^
I haven’t done it in years though.
If I were to guess, I’d say the only thing that will probably stand out as being different on Tusk’s retro would probably be tattoos. With them lighting up the way they do, I would guess they would probably try to match where it lights up at, which my guess is it won’t be in the same places as his snake tattoo in KI2
I’m all for modernization and having an updated look; I like that we have retros, but people are way too worked up and over-sensitive about how they look.
People are quick to argue that the retros aren’t exact (I never got the impression that they were SUPPOSED to be exact!) and will complain about every little pixel out of place; I think to please them IG ought to add “True Retros;” just let them play as enlarged versions of the sprites (right?) used in KI1 and 2.
Your favorite girls can fight in their buttfloss again, though it’s going to be so distorted and blocky that you’d never even know; but hey, it’s the EXACT RETRO that you want!
For those of you who are new around here, this guy is wrong. They cannot actually make KI1 Thunder, because they brought in the Nez Perce Native American tribe to approve his design. This was a generally-agreed-upon provision between Microsoft and the designers that allowed them to bring back such a potentially offensive character to the game. The Nez Perce approved his current designs and accessories, including the retro, and his story, and specifically and vocally vetoed original Thunder. Having them on board provides indemnity against social justice bullies and DH/IG/MS cannot deviate from those designs without potentially causing a shitstorm.
As for the people who want butt floss in their female characters, well, sorry. There’s always Dead or Alive or Rule34. The rest of us are no longer twelve. Giving Kim accessories on her legs breaks up the visual monotony and gives her something customizable beyond the boring pron-fishnets-into-tabi that she had in KI2. Why isn’t anyone complaining about her not having inexplicably curly red hair? Some people.
The curly hair would be a nice touch.
I actually feel like the fact that his design is now part of the specific tribe it has a lot more weight or realism to it. I main Thunder, and learning about this actually made me interested in learning about the tribe and their history.
There’s some interesting reading out there, if you care to look.