Response to LCD's why is no one sticking to KI rant

General Discussion
23

Actually, all that’s needed is a positive scene that loves their game.

Marvel 3, a wholly broken game that’s been actively shunned by Capcom and removed from all sanctioned events, gets support in the form of podcasts and #MahvelLives trends on twitter because, while some people hate that game, lots of people love it. Smash Bros Melee was not only shunned by Nintendo but actively assaulted by them for years, forcing tournaments to remove the game from their lineup or face legal action. But a loving grassroots community has made Melee one of the biggest fighting games in the world.

KI has the opposite problem. It’s actively supported by an English-speaking developer that is trying to do their best by the game, engaging with the community every single day, and all the community can do to thank them is to insult other players and engage in drama until they quit out of frustration, or sling heavy-handed, short-sighted hyperbole at the developers until they’re forced to block them on Twitter.

If KI dies, people guess breaking won’t be the reason why, I can promise you that much.

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24

Sorry but Marvel is on another level than KI. You cant compare a Trademark with Million Fans with KI.

The viewers on every stream shows that Marvel is on another Level.

And on a sidenote broken is not the same as not fun.

Actually, all that’s needed is a positive scene that loves their game - you said it yourself. How do you get a positive scene that loves their game? You need a game that is purely fun and you need the backup in form of mechanics to convince new players.

And nowhere i said guess breaking is the reason why.I said they should ask why people quit playing KI after trying. What was the reason they didnt had fun - cause if a game is purely fun to you than you dont quit.

I said they should ask why people have quit playing or why they dont play. Then analyse and try to fix some of the complaints to draw more people into KI without pushing away the existing ones.

And as a sidenote - the most complained about mechanic outside this forum is simply the limitless, easy breaking (wich KI never had! - it was hard to break). Yeah than they should play something else but than new players stay away from the game.

If a popular competitor picks up KI and stays with it - it would grab the attention from many new players. I know totally Utopia but if Daigo would pick up KI it would draw many players into KI. Some people dont realize nowadays how strong something like well known pros playing the game is.

Take the current Streams like LCD, PaulB, CDjr as example. They barely hit 100viewers. Rico Suave gets more viewers most of the time. Take a random MKX stream 1000+ viewers - Jwong 10k+ viewers.

These numbers are not Random chosen by me. It should be asked - why is this the case? Why people like jwong quit on KI?

And your argumentation had nothing to do with what i have said - the main problem on this forum here.

25

As great a player as he his, he hasn’t much respect for anyone but his past self and past games.

A very simple answer to your line of thinking follows:
a) Unfounded hate on MS stemming from E3’13.
b) KI’13 is new due to a 20 year hiatus.
c) The Combo Breaker system was always controversial. ALWAYS.

And to blanket it all; MK and Injustice are multiplatform and don’t hold a candle to Smash or MvC3. KI was never huge, but it always had passionate fans (not the size of the army, it’s its fury).

26

exactly - but should it stay the way you said?

If yes then we can not discuss cause it will always stay a small and unimportant game in the fgc (cause that is the case right now)

A small group are fans (not even all play the game anymore) that love ki franchise.

Maybe its the wrong forum for discussing cause most of the players here are ki fans not fg fans.

Its about growing to have a future for a ki after this iteration.

27

I believe it’s the middle ground for both sides to meet :smiley:

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28

Another level how? Sure, Marvel is a more popular universe than KI will ever be, and it has more players at its peak than KI has had, but that’s not my point at all. My point is that, despite a lot of things stacked against them (a game with broken balance and design decisions some don’t like, a developer that is no longer allowed to legally even SELL the game, let alone support it with tournament funds or patches), a love for playing the game and a positive attitude is making the game last. Meanwhile, there are some people who dislike some of the design decisions in KI, but instead of being positive and promoting what they love about the game, they’re actively hating on it.

This is not to say that we shouldn’t open discourse about how the game can improve… of course we should do that. But we need to do it in a respectful way while remaining positive on the game, on its players, and on the developers. Some people are being respectful in this way, and that’s great. Lots of other people are not.

Ok, a fair question, but to assume that one person not having fun with a mechanic means it’s broken or needs fixing is a dangerous line of thinking. Even if that one person is JWong. If the overwhelmingly vast majority of a community thinks idea X is bad, then okay, let’s talk about that… but I’m not sure this is as easy to prove as you think. I brought up guess breaking/ease of breaking because it’s a topic being discussed in the forums right now that doesn’t have a clear consensus at all, even though it’s touted as this gigantic problem with KI.

Yes, KI is a niche fighting game on a platform very few FGC fans own. It’s going to have low numbers. Also, I’m not sure if you’ve been watching MKX streams recently, but there haven’t been any 1000+ view streams for months (not counting tournaments). Even the Yomi stream, the most consistent showcase of high level play for that game, tends to average around 300-500 now, and JWong hasn’t streamed the game in a long time. At launch there were tons of viewers, sure, but MKX hasn’t held even 10% of those numbers. Once the shock value wore off for the casual twitch viewer, they stopped watching.

At time of writing this post, I loaded up the MKX twitch page, and TrueTalent (a multi-game Let’s Play guy who has continued to play MKX longer than most) has 995 viewers. The second highest stream is CDjr with 59.

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29

When this discussion was brought up, @CrazyLCD had some valid points in his argument, he backed it up with intuitive examples, it wasn’t so much a rant as it was insight for Pro players. What you are discussing can actually be quite damaging and single out the players who aren’t very good at the game by labeling them as “scrubs” for guess breaking on occasion. There are different ways to approach this discussion without having to insult others directly. Good job for everyone else remaining patient and elaborating on the topic though.

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30

Its a bloody video game! I hate it when people start bs with “scrub” “pro” etc players! We are all playing it to have fun! KI is one of the few games that if you dont have your mind right, yes, an experienced player can lose to a novice player…and you know what, thats great! Lets people pick up the game and get into it more, and also teaches the hardcore fans to play harder!

I myself play for fun, and at the end of the day, KI has been played on my xbox 1 ever since launch on a daily basis practically. I still have terrible days and am not on any pro level, but that doesn’t mean I dont win some tough matches here and there. At the end of the day its ALL ABOUT HAVING FUN! I dont know any other fighter that can bring the amount of fun that KI does. And its only going to get better with Season 3. IG/MS are both working incredibly hard to please the fans, that is clearly evident! Sad thing is, there are always going to be people that ■■■■■. You cant please everyone and I think they are doing an amazing job at keeping the game balanced and fresh.

This is just my opinion, but I know I am not alone in the line of thinking. Its nice to see the heavy hitters make their way back but its also nice to see new people picking it up.

LONG LIVE KI!

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31

Jwong was just a example.

PR Balrog, Juicebox, Perfect Legend, SonicFox (he tried it - why doesnt he stick to it?), UltraDavid (though he does not play - but he speaks about the game) are just a few more. And there are many more that have quit playing the game - i know some myself.

Why do i have to get people out of the Box to ask themself outside of my examples.

I am not assuming they quit KI due to breakers. I just asked, why did they guit?

Nobody can tell cause no one that has a influence on the game asked them or all others that quit playing the game.

Maybe its the Xbox One hurdle, maybe it are the breakers but maybe there is even more.

I hate when people just assume that i said something when i just asked Why?

No one can answer cause no one asked them… The KI Fans here just say cause he is ignorant, cause he can not adapt bla bla but no one asked.

Only if you know you can make the game more appealing and maybe (not guaranteed) draw new players to the game. And Pro Players draw more players to the game than some dude (like me) on a forum like this.

And of course it is a fine line between keeping old players and draw new ones. One drastic change can drive people away from the game just like S2 did to many S1 players.

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32

How much Blaze Blue, Guilty Gear, Skull Girls or Smash Bros. do those players play? (honest question).

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33

Maybe they just prefer playing other games. Not everybody is gonna like every game or system.

34

It’s utterly unsurprising that players accustomed to games like Street Fighter, Marvel, KOFXIII, etc could not spend a lot of time playing KI. There are many ways in which KI differs drastically from these games, and those differences could certainly be enough for them to give it a pass. That doesn’t make KI a better or worse game. Street Fighter with KI skins, this is not.

I think the money factor has to be brought into the discussion as well, especially when discussing players like JWong, Perfect Legend and Sonic Fox. As best as I can tell, only recently have KI pot bonuses become something of note, and even then are consistenly smaller than bonuses for games like MKX and SF. When a player is playing to earn their keep, it makes perfect sense that they’d focus most of their time on a game with significant payouts.

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35

Maybe some pros simply won’t adapt to the breaker game because they only play games where they see they can earn $$$$$$$$$ and feel that KI is too much of an investment already (xbox exclusive, unique combo system…) for a game where a random guess can turn the tide and slap the prize pot out of your hands.

I am pretty confident that despite these breaker talk lately, they’ll pick the game when it comes out for PC.
That day they’ll be like “Let’s try if we can make some money out of this game, in the end if I don’t like it I just spent 20$ for the combo breaker pack”

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36

Well, I think it’s unreasonable to expect any player, no matter how “pro” or well known, to perform at a top-level in many games. Up to three makes sense, sort of… but there are only 24 hours in a day. You have to make a choice on what to focus on.

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37

the problem may not guaranteed damage, but guaranteed money indeed

38

I’m not quite sure that it’s 100% of the problem… but I’m pretty sure it’s somewhat of a factor, whether or not these players know it or admit it.

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39

It’d be nice to hear;
“I make my money playing X and Y but I really like playing Z on the side.” rather than “If it doesn’t make me money, it’s not worth my time.”

(I’d also be nice to hear more recognition for the Yomi of the game rather than the need for absolute technical skill to be the winner.)

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40

I think it was CD Jr who ranted about this. Not LCD.

41

I absolutely agree. The mind games in KI are very real, and being a step ahead of your foe in this game rewards you just as much as any other game (and with the combo game in tow, arguably rewards you more).

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42

The problem is that the salty FGC would interpret it as “I tried to win cash with KI but I wasn’t good enough and now I am bashing the game out of spite” and many pros don’t want to look bad in any situation. It’s bad for their reputation and their egos.

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