Request for patch 3.2: Make lockout X appear instantly

Hi devs (apologies for tagging: @TempusChaoti @BlitzedKraig @developers), I wanted to bring up an issue I think is really important, with the hopes that a) the change is relatively straightforward and b) there will be enough time in your monstrously busy schedules to fix it in the next patch, which is the last patch before a hugely important spectator event, EVO. I’ve brought it up in other threads that the devs have perhaps read, but I think it’s important enough to mention it in its own thread.

Counter breakers “not working properly” is a hot button topic with the community right now. Many of these missed counter breakers are not the fault of the system and simply the player being late, and the community is still trying to get used to the slight change in counter breaker timing with the S3 hitstop change.

But I do think there is at least one very important reason that counter breakers “feel frustrating” when they barely miss, and it’s because of how the lockout X changed late in S2. You guys made a great decision to introduce the new X with the timing/strength indicators, but a byproduct of this is that the X now takes 8 frames to animate in when the defense locks out. This is different from the expectation in all of S1 and 95% of S2, where the old lockout X appeared immediately. See the gif below, where I have paused the video briefly on the frame where the lockout occurs:

This means, any time you are late on a counter breaker by 7 or fewer frames, the game will give you false feedback and display the lockout X after you hear the counter breaker sound and see your character already in the counter breaker pose, as the video shows. Even if you can mentally acknowledge that “my counter breaker missed so I must have been late”, seeing this feedback can really add to the frustration (and you are probably already a little peeved because your counter breaker read was correct but only slightly mistimed).

My request is that you remove the 8 frames of the animation where the diamond is trying to form and is essentially invisible. Ideally, the 1st frame where the lockout happens, the X jumps immediately to the enlarged version that finally appears, and then it shrinks down to the normal size. Of course, the lockout timer should be the same as it always has been, this is just a change in how the X appears.

Even though this will not universally address the frustration with missed counter breakers, I really do feel like this small aesthetic change will have a big impact on player and spectator enjoyment, and will go a long way to making players feel like the game didn’t cheat them. The lockout X is a very timing-sensitive thing; it needs to be shown to the player as soon as the game knows about the lockout happening. Players will be more willing to accept that their counter breaker was late if they see the feedback as it actually happened (and, therefore, not blame the game and spread negativity).

I know the team is very busy with the last few characters and all the new single player content you’re building, but I feel this change is very important for player enjoyment, and I hope the changes involves a small enough amount of work that it can make the next patch before EVO. Thanks for listening!


I wholeheartedly agree with Infil’s stance on this matter. It doesn’t make sense to have a timing lockout show up 8 frames after you were already late - it can instill the wrong sense of timing in the player, whereas having it show immediately let’s the player know specifically where (or rather, when) in the combo sequence that they messed up.

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I agree wholeheartedly. Nothing worse than throwing a counter breaker and then it shows that the opponent was locked out. :sweat:
If the symbol popped up instantly, it would certainly solve some annoying situations.

Im against this. Riptor already got enough nerfs and this would ruin her completely.

Can’t tell if sarcastic, but if not, why? This has no impact on any character balance.

I’m for your suggestion too, but there are also circumstances in which the counter breaker lockout fails to appear at all sometimes as well. So while I’m for an instant appearance of the lockout X, there also needs to be a visit on the issue of having them appear more reliably. They do not always appear when they are should, not just 8 frames late but not appearing at all either.


Hey guys, i might be a genius or something, im not sure…

But i think i have a fix for the ENTIRE counterbreaker issue.

What if counter-breaker poses were PHYSICAL HITS? To keep things short, i will explain like this:
-Breakers can only be performed, and counter breakers can only catch, DURING HITSTUN.
-That is why sometimes doing a counter breaker after a LIGHT move will fail when it doesnt seem like it should. Because the player left Hitstun in just a few frames after the counter breaker attempt. (This is also why some Counter-break catches can happen almost a WHOLE SECOND after initiating the counter break. Because in these situations, the counter break attempt was attempted after a HEAVY move)

But what if the Counter breaker pose was a physical hit, that added a CONSISTENT amount of hit-stun to the opponent? Here is what i am thinking:

Step 1: A move within a combo is performed (Linker, AD or manual) which puts the opponent in hitstun, This hit-stun can vary DRASTICALLY depending on the move.
Step 2: A counter-Break is attempted.
Step 3: The Counter Breaker pose is also an INVISIBLE PHYSICAL HIT (No animation change, no hit-stop, no hit-sparks) that sends the opponent into a SET amount of hit-stun (Canceling out the hit-stun of the previous move, as any hit usually does).
Step 4: At this point, What happened in the combo does not matter, because the stunned player is now in a SET amount of hit-stun that is large enough to MAKE SURE his break attempt gets caught if he tries one, but short enough that he will easily recover and punish if he does not attempt to break.

@Infilament will this work? Am i a genius?


If it only works against hitstun, then how are you going to drop a move to interrupt your own combo in advance of their combo-break? By your own admission, you’d have to start a move 1st that actually hits - why not just end a move and then counter-break in between moves like you can now? How would you accomodate for that, especially since you’re supposed to counter-break BEFORE they combo-break? WIthout being able to do so, they can just freely combo-break because you’re forced to do a move 1st, which gives the defender the advantage, which is not how KI is supposed to necessarily work.

Im not sure i understand what you are asking. You can still interrupt your own moves. Nothing changes, except that on the 1st frame of a counterbreak attempt, the opponent gets hit with an invisible strike, that puts them into hitstun…

Don’t worry about it - I’m actually kinda confusing myself here just trying to think of another reply, and if I can’t get what I’m thinking, then it’s probably not worth posting about yet.

This idea works in theory and was suggested in another thread by, I believe, @MBABanemobius. The trouble is that we don’t know how the game is coded, so adding a “phantom hit” that causes a consistent amount of hit stun might really s.crew (really, forums? that word is censored?) with the breaker system somehow, or create a bunch of other unintended side effects.

There were other solutions proposed, such as adding a minimum amount of hit stun to counter breakers (there is already a maximum amount of hit stun applied so that safe counter breakers aren’t possible). This solves the same problem a slightly different way. Whether this is easy for the devs to implement or not is something we don’t know. But we do know that they know about this problem, at least.

However, this is an unrelated problem to the lockout X showing up late. In my case, the offense did actually miss their counter breaker because they were too late, but it doesn’t show up immediately so they’re tricked into thinking the game is lying to them.

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I didnt show any respect for your thread in my post because i had already “liked” it. Immediately after posting, i knew that was a bad idea. So for the record, i DO agree with your thread, and also hope the issue gets solved.

…and this is similar to what happens to me all of the time, but for me, it’s with combo-breakers (I’m sure it happens to me with counter-breakers too, but frankly, it’s hard to notice since everything moves so fast). I try to combo-break a certain move, but then nothing happens until my opponent’s next move, and that’s when the lockout occurs from my combo-break attempt from the previous part of the combo (and it’s NOT a timing lockout either).

For example, I’ll attempt to break a medium AD, and then my opponent continues their combo into a light linker, where it then says I get locked out for a wrong read on the light linker when I only ever broke during the AD. If it was a timing lockout, I could (almost) understand, but I absolutely, absolutely hate it when this happens.

This is expected behavior, though, and there’s no way for the UI to fix this. In this case, you broke the medium AD too late, and you overlapped into some other window that wasn’t medium, so you get a strength lockout. I mean, maybe there was online lag that helped you get locked out or something, but this “issue” isn’t fixable. The game isn’t lying to you by showing you UI elements later than they happened, causing you to think that the inverse thing happened.


That sounds more like a input display lag thing. If your tv has a lot of display lag, then your button presses will be delayed relative to what you see happening on the screen.

Nah, I have game mode turned on on my TV, so…

*shrug * Then I guess you’re just missing the timing.

Nah, I still think it’s lag - just not from the TV.

I too am concerned about this proposal disproportionately hurting Riptor’s gameplan.

Seriously, wtf?! What the hell does this have to do with Riptor? btw the proposal sounds good.