Recent fulgore nerfs

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please keep discussion civil, impersonal, and on topic.

His meter gain has ALWAYS slowed down because of his energy-based special moves, of which his teleport Is only 1. It drains his battery, so-to-speak. This is a character concept that’s been around from day 1, so why only start complaining about it now? And only about the teleport when there are 2 other specials that do the same (eye laser and plasma bolt)? It makes no sense! Especially since you can speed the meter gain back up by being aggressive and using his physical-based special attacks like his DP and claw-charge. If you want to gain meter so badly, don’t zone so much and only use his energy-based attacks mid-combo where they will still build meter, since he’s on the offense and no longer in the neutral.

As for his teleport, it’s crazy good for mixup opportunities (left, right, mid, throw, DP, low, overhead, poke, meaty, etc.), and he’s still invisible during many of his follow-up attacks, making him hard to read and effectively counter.

He got nerfed because he needed it. [spoiler] If you don’t like it, then either learn the character better like others have said, move on to something else, or become a game developer and make your own FG.

…or, you know, you could actually come up with a somewhat reasonable argument for your stance instead. Right now, you’re too emotionally fuelled and not thinking things clearly through. A break, perhaps, might be a good idea. A little relaxation, after all, never hurt anyone. [/spoiler]

Yes I understand you u can be punished for using a teleport I just don’t like how I’m being punished on shadow gain for using a special that no one else Is gets punished for using a special all because I have a teleport but i also see your point I just feel like maybe they could’ve went a different route idk

Other characters have other properties and different uses to their teleports. No two teleports are the same so you can’t just say “well fulgore loses meter so so should every other teleport.” If you want to go that route then fulgore should only be able to appear behind, because that’s all hisako can do with hers. It’s not fair to hisako so we gotta nerf fulgore!

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You get punished on meter gain because of how good of a tool teleport is and how it ties in to getting an opening and increasing spin speed through combos

Could be a little less personal with the responses. Even if he isn’t thinking clearly, you can ask for clarification. Don’t attack the person. We want people to use the forums benificially not feel belittled. Forcing people away saying get better or quit, that’s an awful thing to impose on someone. Some people are just casual players, so explaining clearly a work around or using experience to convey a different viewpoint would be the better option. I don’t know his skill level, so I won’t assume, I know my skill level, so I explain what works for me and why. What if I said to you to take your vendetta against Fulgore elsewhere? Whether or not you have one, I can also misinterpret your response. All I can do is kindly ask to be a bit more respectful. Not everyone plays top tier, everyone can always improve.

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If Jago can’t punish Gargos for running away from the match than his speed should be improved or Gargos speed should be reduced. If Jago can’t DP Gargos because his minion causes hitstun than his minions should also share health with Gargos.

Essentially. Play the game according to characters. Tongue is easily punishable in most cases by light dp’s or even sweeps. I don’t know much about each characters frame data and which works better for whichever scenario but I know that being able to adapt is crucial with any matchup.

He can be if you time it right and block the followup, usually a puddle punch.

She’s punishable if you aren’t knocked down.

You can shadow through it.

Grab him during his recovery frames.

Every character can be punished by using special moves. Jago’s failed DP leaves him open for quite a while. Glacius Puddle Punch is similar. You can shadow through Kan-ras bugs. You can bait or use projectiles against Hisako.

As to gaining less shadow meter for being punishable?
Nope, that is Fulgores weakness. Each character has them and to buff him for it would mean that he would be insanely overpowered. Imagine he continued to build pips at 33% increased charge time along with no change to his reactor speed… no one would beat him.

Pretty sure a fair number of the cast lost a number of tool options. Gargos can’t run away as effectively, Tusk has a new awkward function to his shadow move, Jago does less damage. I can only think of Sadira getting a new tool but that is because she was no good against a majority of the cast.

You are comparing Fulgore… who’s initial designed was meant for him to struggle with meter against the Meter King himself, who gains the most. Legend has it that Jago can even crouch and gain meter.

Circa Nicky has proven how well Fulgores defense can be despite his short comings. It isn’t easy to learn how to block and tech but that is part of Fulgores weakness.

Sry I should’ve been more clear when I say punish I mean punished by gaining shadow meter when using specials like grenade or puddle I know all those moves have their punishes like the bots newest teleport nurf was what I was saying

What if he was able to gain one shadow move as fast as the rest of the cast when he blocks but when it reaches that one move it slows down to what it is now unless you’re pressuring I say this because I’ve had matches where I’ll lose half a life bar before I ever get a shadow move we need to just go back to the s1 charge lol going to get some backlash from that last statement

Not having meter to spare is intentional. Fulgore already has a dp, not giving him access to a shadow move quicky is intentional and required.

With all my respects, if you can’t see this, you are not understanding the character design objective.

Fulgore has supreme :
Offense
Neutral game
Mixups

And has great defense. Having more meter would rocketsky his capabilities. No thanks

No man I see what you’re saying but this was a recent nurf by your logic you’re saying he’s been OP for three years the only reason that he now takes a nurf to his shadow gain is to keep people from teleporting all the time but you can spam tongue all the time spam fireballs all the time you see where I’m going with this and I understand that the teleport is a good mix up tool like I said I’ve been here since season one I know a little and I see some of your points but I hope you see mine as well

Some people would argue that he was. Heck, some still think he’s OP.

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Not broken, but since s2, Fulgore has been always a top 5 character. Even the best character in some patches.

This change aims to make him less “braindead”. He now has to choose better options, not teleport by default.

The same logic was applied by nerfing Thunder DP. The objective is not nerf “just because”.

It’s for the greater good. Having a balanced cast.

Maybe we are not there yet, but thats the objective and that’s what IG is aiming to achieve

Yeah man I seen the arguments about him being OP for a long time now but I don’t really want to get into if he’s Op or not I’m just mainly more wanting to discuss how they could have maybe done it a different way other than taking another hit to my reactor gaining abilities

Well sir this absolutely made me think about it a different way justified change I guess. not teleporting by default made me think as well nice response man

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When all those characters gain the ability to cancel their specials into other specials (including an invincible meterless DP), a meter boosted backdash, and get the option to both zone and teleport in place, then I’ll wholeheartedly support them taking a penalty to meter gain for using specials.

Fulgore teleport is really, really good, and his ability to come in as he pleases through a combination of hardcore zoning and rapid fire teleports is pretty strong. I dunno man, if the cause for your losing is the teleport spin speed nerf, then I think you’re maybe missing a few steps with the character in other places. :confused:

And yeah, S1 Fulgore was actually maybe my favorite version of the character. His gameplan was super complex, but I thought it was incredibly interesting and pretty reasonably balanced, excepting the terribad Thunder v Fulgore MU. I liked that he had to make meaningful choices between reactor and pressure - I feel like it made him a more thoughtful character all around.

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Fundamental defense is near mandatory for all characters, not just Fulgore. It makes more rounded players.

S3 changed a lot for a lot of characters, they got new tools and a slight damage reduction for them. Fulgore didn’t get much for new tools, but thankfully he didn’t get the damage nerf. Quite a few top players, mostly Sleep demanded that Fulgore get the damage nerf too. He had already gotten the damage nerf early in S2, for him to get another one would be devastating.

Comparing Fulgore, a low meter character, to a high meter character is usually the right aspect. Taking the worst vs the best to find the middle ground, or reasons to justify why his meter is soo bad, but it is also due to the fact that Jago and Fulgore have a relatively similar tool set at its core. Would you sacrifice a teleport for better footsies, neutral, frame traps and potential healing? I’ve gotten close a few times. Fulgore is my main though, adjust and adapt but still some changes seem just a bit much sometimes. Which is a given for anyone of any skill level.

Fulgore is living on a knife’s edge in this game. There is no other character to my knowledge, in any 2D fighting game that has aspects of zoning, that can cancel special into special for such a negligible cost. This is almost unfathomably strong; you can basically never jump (double jump trickery notwithstanding) against a Fulgore in neutral, because nothing he does is incorrect or mistimed when he has pip cancel DP on deck. It’s both very hard to do as the Fulgore player, and unstoppably good when he manages to do it. You basically have no choice but to approach on the ground, which is doable but difficult for many reasons. And this isn’t even counting its uses in offense (turning mid range neutral into a mixup at his pleasure, basically).

I don’t see how Fulgore has bad defense. He has a meterless DP. Only 8 characters in the whole game have this (Jago, Shadow Jago, Orchid, Fulgore, Omen, Cinder, Aria sometimes, Tusk). That is very strong by itself, and Fulgore’s hits 3 times so it also blows up armor except in carefully scienced situations. His backdash is the fastest in the game. Yes he has access to meter for shadow counter less often, but by no stretch of the imagination does Fulgore have bad defense.

Those who think Fulgore needs to have more meter more often aren’t really understanding the power of pip canceled special moves, I think.

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A few others have similar invincible reversals like Cinder’s Light Fireflash and Eyedol’s Light Crushing Swing, but yeah invincible meterless reversals are still a rarity in the cast. Only 7 of them have true DPs, and 2 of them have DP equivalents, out of a cast of 26 characters. It’s quite a blessing.

Plus, Fulgore has a lot of tools. He’s basically Jago + Teleport and a low hitting special. And his instinct gives him the meter he lacks (even between rounds!).
All that AND he’s probably the coolest looking character in the game? Fulgore is pretty freakin’ cool where he’s at, if you ask me. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Can someone please change the title spelling? I’m sorry the OCD in me. :sweat:

Yeah I forgot Eyedol, didn’t have a character page open to me so was trying to do it from memory. I also forgot Glacius, oops. Seems the number is actually 10 (out of 26) then, but that’s still great for Fulgore, and you can make a good argument that Fulgore’s DP is one of the better ones because of the range, the speed (3f), and because it hits 3 times. Omen has a meterless DP, but his can be neutral jumped, low profiled, it’s slow, and it does weaker damage, so they definitely come in different flavors.

I think the only DPs that I’d rank as better than Fulgore’s would be Jago’s (fast, high damage), Cinder’s when fired up (annoying to punish, leads to combo), and Eyedol’s (surprisingly fast recovery, 3f and big horizontal range, in instinct it’s virtually impossible to punish without a pre-DP read).

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