Reaction to LCD's "Killer Instinct Season 3 | Guest Characters" video

If you didn’t see the video, check it out below. It’s really good and he provides a lot of well thought out ideas.

I really like LCD’s thought process on this. If you want a realistic choice to get the game promoted and to help the game grow by attracting a bigger audience, Scorpion/Sub-Zero is a no brainer…

However, I think I have a way that’ll bring in a small but significant portion of Japanese gamers. If MS made a deal with Arc System Works, it would be really awesome if we could have Sol Badguy and/or Ky Kiske from the Guilty Gear series show up as guest chars. They fit perfectly in KI and it cross-promotes two underdog fighting game franchises!!!


Wait a second… “Nobody’s gonna join the game because of Rash”, then “Joanna would fit because she’s from a 90’s Rare IP”. WTF. Contradictory much? You can’t have it both ways, Larry.

How is it that Rash doesn’t make sense in KI? I still haven’t heard a real reason for that. Nobody can tell me why other than “he doesn’t fit”. Rash makes more sense than Joanna, Rash is from a beat 'em up (read: a brawler), where he FOUGHT ENEMIES in hand-to-hand combat. As opposed to Joanna Dark who shot enemies.


Joanna Dark, but MC is not? ok dude.

"Our opinions don’t matter, because Microsoft will do whatever they want."
So exactly what is the point of your video? to simpy impose your dislike of Rash because “he doesn’t fit”? Like Frodo said, I need an explanation for why people say this. He’s a character that actually fights in his game, and they did a great job bringing him to KI in a non-canon way.
Count how many times he’s just said Rash doesn’t fit or doesn’t help the game, you can make a drinking game out of it.

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It’s a great video and he makes very solid points. I don’t really agree about Joanna dark being perfect for KI but that’s pretty irrelevant to his overall point.

First off I love that I’m super Hollywood now and get forum posts titled after me LOL :kissing_closed_eyes:
(Seriously though I’m not Hollywood…)

Now on to the topic at hand, I 100% agree that IG did wonders making Rash work in the game and I even pointed that out in this video; his moves are very creative and plays wonderfully. When people say he doesn’t fit into the game (including myself) we mean that as a character, the way he is depicted and where he comes from doesn’t fit into the game. The way a character looks or plays is always going to be highly subjective but if MS were to tell people that Rufus from street fighter or Luigi from Smash was making his way in KI as a guest character in S3 people would probably lose their stuff because it doesn’t make any sense right?

I’m not saying that there aren’t huge fans of Rash from back in the day but in my opinion I don’t think he was the right choice. There aren’t as many people who even know where rash comes from let alone interest them enough to play a fighting game that may be out of there comfort zone, and if they do, will they stick with the game long term outside of just mashing buttons for a couple hours before they get bored? Using my same Logic Johanna Dark doesn’t really fit my criteria either, however she does make more sense for a fighting game and fits that persona of a really bad a$$ character; at least better than a giant frog.

All things considered, I look at guest characters as a great way to help promote your game and get people interested in it for the long term. Taking for example Cloud that just got announced for Smash; did anyone see that coming? Probably not but people are freaking out about it and plan to play Smash like crazy when he debuts. To beat the point to death even further speaking for myself back when Darth Vader, Yoda, and Link all got announced for Soul Calibur it actually made me want to play the game having never played it in the past; and I actually ended up liking the game and played it for quite some time. Mortal Kombat X sold over 5 million copies and the franchise itself has been going strong for over 20 years. Taking an iconic character such as Scorpion or Sub Zero does a lot more for the game in terms promotion than Rash does. The goal is to get fighting game players from other fighting games to play KI, not get a random FPS guy to try the game for 10 minutes. If a hardcore MK fan sees there favorite character Sub Zero or Scorpion is in KI they might give it a chance, like it, and play it long term at tournaments.

Scorpion or Sub Zero more so fit into the game and a lot of there pre-determined elements I could make work right now just off the top of my head. Scorpion’s spear could be a recapture that can be used as an anti-air or having his teleport act as linkers or combo openers. Sub Zero could be a new zoner who relies on his ice clones for pressure but also defense. There are just so many things you can do with those types of characters with such a system that KI features.

If you just want to look at it from the peer perspective of “Just put a cool nostalgia character in the game for fun” then fine yes, Rash fits perfectly in the game and then so does Johanna. Unless Microsoft and IG just flat out tell us their thought process on how they choose guest characters, all we can do is speculate and base our own assumptions on what makes the most sense; and in my case that is what helps the game the most.

These are just my own thoughts and won’t reflect others.

My question is how does a special agent, a female James Bond, if you will, fit better than a knock-off of TMNT that went around and beat the crap out of people in hand-to-hand combat? Yes Joanna has good hand-to-hand skills, but her main focus was gunplay. How does that fit in a rushdown-heavy game like KI?

Isn’t KI all about the parodies? The over-the-top, campy, silly ideals of it all? I always kind of thought KI, at least the originals, were making fun of the other fighting games. You’ve got Jago, a warrior monk, an obvious knock-off of Ryu, but exaggerated with the huge particle effects from the fireballs and the physics-defying Wind Kick, Orchid, a character, in my eyes, poking fun at the “strong independent woman” because she’s gone mad, a werewolf, a skeleton, and a giant rock monster. Sounds like a TMNT parody fits right in to me.

I think you’re looking at guest characters the wrong way if you think they’re just there to “promote the game” and steal players from other games. Guest characters, while drawing in the random fans of that particular character, don’t really do much for sales one way or the other. Look at Soul Calibur for a prime example. Nobody got SCV because of Ezio. Few people got SCIV because of Vader and Yoda. It simply doesn’t really work like that.

I don’t think we’d get anyone from MK in because, honestly, none of their moves could work in KI. Scorpion’s spear is about the only thing he could keep, and be balanced. And when you have to water a character down to just a skin and a move, then you’re not doing the character justice and shouldn’t put it in your game.

I don’t know about Joanna, she is pretty much on the same boat as Rash to me. The reason I would see MC working is because I don’t think IG/MS is looking at guest characters in hopes to get them to play at tournaments. Look at MK, most of their guest characters are not characters that make people want to go and play tournaments. They are cool characters from movies that fans love and would just play for that character like the Predator. That’s why I see MC working.

As for Scorpion and Sub, yeah that would get some looks from the MK community but will average joes say “Oh look it’s Scorpion, am going to play KI now!” probably not. They would just stick to playing him in the game they already own.

The most realistic viewpoint is that guest character would be in the game to sell other properties or KI. BT most likely came to KI because of Rarereplay or a new BT game is secretly in the works. There have been strong hints for about 2 years now and even Phil Spencer has a BT image as his profile pic. Any other guest characters would be made to sell their game. Probably some of the new dudes like Scalebound guy or Recore girl.

Overall I think there will be at the very least 3 guest characters, perhaps more. You don’t go on stage at Gamescom to promote a season with guest characterS just so that you could have 2 of them.

So much Rash hate in that video, I couldn’t even finish it. Not enjoyable to watch whatsoever. “Waste of Development time”.


@CrazyLCD i was getting REAL bored untill u said Joanna Dark and use my image :smile: YAS!

Thanks mate <3

Big thumbs up!

Rash agree
joanna agree
Scorpion agree

Nice video!

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AND For anyone who think joanna is the same as rash



All shot guns or were kown for using high tech projectiles but were all kick A*s with hand to hand and combo based game play in them games!

Joanna is a serious character her DNA IS THE SAME AS KI. Even the outline of her story is the same! Spy / large corporation / aliens

Her and scorpion for me

Retro factor reimagined VS well known heroe status fighter.

Both games share DNA;

PD: same devs, same creator, same art lead, same story outline, same generation

Mk: same technologies, Midway worked on both games, same outline in regards to fatalities and being darker.

No brains needed here :smile:

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and master chief wouldn’t fit because its from a shooter, 2min later he suggests Joanna which surprise surprise is from a shooter.
I whish I never found out about LCD’s YouTube Channel. I cant stand him anymore. I cant recall one single video where we had the same opinion on one topic.

Guest characters will never promote the game as much as you think anyway. If it was true then Soul Calibur III (or IV?) would be the best selling fighting game of all time with Darth Vader and Yoda. Chances are it wasn’t even the best selling SC.

Dat eyeliner tho.


MC dosent fit in ki!

warden eternal ALL DAY LONG! but not MC. hes not expressive enough

Joanna was designed by the SAME designer. She already fits in style wise and her cause is basically the same. Shut down Data dyne save the world from invasion.

MC story is its own thing. its bigger than KI.

I dream of Ash from the Ash vs evil dead series. I think he would fit perfectly in KI in my opinion. He has his chainsaw and boomstick. He fights evil etc.
Will he get more fighting game players to KI? Not sure, but he is a big iconic movie character. Right now they are airing a new tv show based on the series. And I believe MK got a lot of new players because of all the cool movie characters they put in as guests. So yeah, he might work.

I didn’t totally agree on your opinions. Think Rash fits, in a fun and little bit goofy way. But you had a lot of valid points. Thanks for sharing LCD.

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Good points all-round @CrazyLCD.

I love the idea of Johanna getting a spot in the guest characters list and now that you’ve explained Scorpion/Sub-Zero, I can see the sense that makes now from a business point of view.

My money, hopes and dreams are on Johanna making it. Can’t think of any other character that makes sense and costs the least amount of money, time or effort to put in the roster.

She’ll bring (like you said) the Gun kata character that the game lacks right now.

I personally want to really limit on the idea for guests, one more guest is fine though.

I honestly don’t agree with the idea of Scorpion and Sub-Zero, though personally I would love to see that.

I can KINDA see where they are coming from. Rash kinda acts like something from a Saturday morning cartoon and all the other folks in KI is more like prime-time action shows etc.

However I don’t really mind Rash. and I find it very silly that anyone who wouldn’t want to join the game because of Rash is a really ridiculous and silly reasoning.

As for how he acts as a character: did everyone here forget he’s a GUEST CHARACTER?..IG has to retain his personality or they’ll just piss of his original fans. That’s just how it is. Whe you put a character in from another franchise you don’t tailor their personality to fit the game.

This example is kinda reaching a little, but you don’t put Sonic into Gears of war and make him a chain-smoking, armor wearing, gun-toting soldier. Point I’m trying to make is that when you put a character from another franchise that has a fan-base into the game, you have to retain as much as possible about them, or what would be the damn point?

I know there are some people who didn’t want him in, but the thing is…not many other people were making there suggestions strong enough to represent the character they wanted in the game.

Sorry about coming off in a rant there, I’m just really tired of people complaining about it. I mean sure, I can understand but it is what it is. Just everyone cross your fingers and hope you get a guest that will tickle yourselves, good luck.

I don’t really care personally who the guest character is so long as they are balanced. that’s really my main concern.

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im not saying that MC fits in KI, I don’t want him in KI even though I like him a lot. Im just pointing out how LCD contradicts himself.

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But im pointing out that i dont think he is (totally)

Like joanna IS killer instinct. Its so so simular where as MC is a whole universe away.

I know what you tpu mean tho mate. Its just for me PD and KI are the same.

This is pretty much why and how shes different to MC imo

But i agree with @CrazyLCD retro factor joanna one one other big hitter

See the post below for similarities that PD has that Halo doesn’t:

You sign Goku and Vegeta; you will win the market