Does it matter if both are punishable?
You are right. Sorry I thought it was both. But still the fact that on hit its full juggle combo (with the animation issue a la old TJ combo tremor in the corner) and on dash cancel its a frame trap that requires a shadow counter or an invincible move to get out of is pretty ridiculous. It seems like a big to be honest.
They arenât though. Go into training do jab jab boot dash cancel jab jab. Try to punish it with any non invincible move. You canât you get punished for trying. Itâs a bug I suppose because itâs supposed to be punishable but it isnât itâs plus on block. The opposite of punishable
Yeah which is why I think only the light boot should be plus on run cancel. I would adjust it like:
Light boot run cancelled = Plus on block.
Medium boot run cancelled = 0 on block.
Heavy boot run cancelled = Negative on block.
That way there is actually some thought going into whether he wants the better juggle or the frame trap.
Light boot is -2
Medium boot is -5
Fierce boot is -8
Either something is wrong or Iâm able to punish the dash easy with a 4 frame jab.
Again, this doesnât make him top tier at all.
Personally I think medium should probably be negative on block. Going to neutral is okay I guess but when you consider that Kim Wu spending a dragon or Spinal spending a skull only gets them plus in very specific setups and generally leaves them jab punishable and Rash gets this for no resources at all he should at least be giving up his turn.
Edit - Sith, thank you for explaining to me the dash cancel to jab.
Youâre doing the jabs after dashing too late. Your supposed to hit jab as soon as you input the dash as if forward forward punch was one input. If you see Rash move forward at all youâve input the jab too late and can be punished.
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Ah, okay. Makes sense now on how to do it.
That said, considering Rash only has 2 normal attacks that are plus and the rest can be checked, personally, this is hardly a reason to scream for a nerf. But I do agree that perhaps a form of indication outside of how Rash says âBoot!â would be nice.
On majority of his ways in, Rash risks being punished by the tongue. Wrecking ball leaves him airbone to be punished and battering ram leaves him able to be checked to punishable.
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Yeah I donât think it needs to be nerfed. Just something that I wouldnât mind seeing since it just feels a little goofy that medium gives you more plus frames than light while also giving you a combo on hit.
In addition @KingHadu, if youâre going to make threads like these. Have information to back it up without relying on others.
Saying the following isnât enough to constitute a reason to give a balance change to Rash:
Give proof, such as video evidence, to showcase your reasons.
So I made some video showing all the stuff I discussed. Itâs just on Onedrive because Iâm too lazy to host it anywhere, but you can see all the stuff I described is accurate. Also I have color 9 Rash so obviously I have played him and Iâm not just whining.
Rash positive on block from Medium Boot
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As mentioned above, Iâve recognized the medium boot tech. Iâm fine with it, truth be told.
Very appreciative of you going out of the way to make these videos.
You know, my first impression, âDOOKIEagainâ really made me want to not reply but I will anyways just because I am bored.
Kim Wuâs Anti Air is complete basura (garbage) and I canât think of anything that doesnât beat it.
Actually, no. You can dash under an empty jump, you and use her dragon kick thing that hits airborn people and also counter too. Empty jumping is a legit mix up lol arguably though Kim Wu is probably the worst example for this argument because I may be wrong but you can just use her dragon kick heavy to beat wrecking ball before he is out of it because it goes through armor and if not you can use it before the armor kicks in, also you can easy dash under wrecking ball and the cross up/overhead by dashing as I said before.
Without meter I am pretty sure Aganos can time a heavy normal because of his height to hit Rash out of wrecking ball but then again Rash can mix up other things and I see it being difficult but thats why you use walls, peacemakers etc to keep him in the corner and punish.
Go back and look at that again, they both hit you different heights into the air and are easily distinguished if you look for it enough and it is not a one frame break so you have enough time to quickly see and react for the break atleast imo.
I canât comment on this since I always break stuff like thia but have never been put in this juggle so canât say whether you can or cannot break it but should be breakable if not fix it. Does that make him âOPâ not in the slightest.
Can Rash be better made better or more balanced with some tweaks? Of course like any other character
Does he need it? That is a matter of opinion
Is he OP? Not even close if you ask me.
This is the only thing I donât like. I can live with his arsenal of moves, but if I cannot see whatâs going on on my screen then I donât want to hear about losing because of âpoor fundamentalsâ as soms seem to argue in this thread.
As an Aganos main, I donât like that he only has 2 options against the wrecking ball:
- block, and keep getting pressured.
- use shadow natural disaster, which requires meter that he may not always have.
I got beat by a Rash that seemingly never touched the ground after I wasted my shadow meter. I looked into it, and he does indeed touch the ground, but with m.WB and a follow-up j.MK, he can combo reset just those 2 moves over and over again with the right timing for 12% damage on hit and the time it takes him to touch the ground and do the move again, where heâs vulnerable, is not very many frames at all - in fact, itâs so quick, in the moment, you might not register that itâs even happening, which was the case with me when I lost. Itâs really hard to tell if Aganos even recovers in time before Rash is even back up in the air again. Iâve tried to counter this way in the lab with inconclusive results.
@Finchomatic, try it in the lab and youâll see what I mean. 
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Honestly Iâm okay with wrecking ball and Rashâs corner dirt, although some of the stuff does seem a bit buggy, but . . .
If your solution to what is basically a block infinite is, get hit by the ensuing combo and then break that combo. Thatâs reaching. Also the initial jab/boot hit is not breakable because itâs an opener.
If you donât have meter or an invincible to hit move the only way out of jab jab boot dash cancel jab jab boot repeat is to get hit. Itâs easily +3 or maybe even +4 ON BLOCK so it loops cleanly back into itself, and unlike say Wulf cr. Jab which pushes him out the forward movement of the boot keeps him in. Training mode isnât good enough for me to perfectly test it, but I think with proper execution you can possibly make it an actual BLOCK INFINITE.
This is really obviously not intended and really needs adjustment.
I just tested this in the lab - provided you block it and have a bar of shadow meter, his jab jab string is easily shadow-counterable (and the same goes for his spin kick string).
Itâs shadow counterable, but until you have meter thereâs no way out. That seems a bit much. You were saying that Aganos needing meter to get out of wrecking ball is bad, but this is something that you need meter for unless you have an invincible reversal to hit, so it is the same thing for 2/3 of the cast.
Plus once you use meter all Rash has to do to reset it is hit you with a jab on block, at which point you are literally stuck again until you have meter. Thatâs pretty intense punishment for blocking a single jab.
Also Iâm fine with stuff being plus on block or needing shadow counter to be punished, but this is a difference of degrees. Jago, Kim Wu, Fulgore and Wulf all of them can put you in long strings of positive on block frametraps that are best escaped with Shadow Meter, but all of them push you out eventually, or are forced to reset to neutral. This doesnât do that. It loops into itself until it hits or is shadow countered.
Also the vast majority of the other frametrap strings rely on deliberately multi-hit moves. Axis Slash, Forward Roundhouse, Wulfâs two hit claw, Kim Wu medium Dragon Dance. All Rash has to do to bait a shadow counter is watch when you have meter and then do Jab wait instead of Jab Jab. Also it isnât like his jabs are 20+ frames long so you have to do the shadow counter on a read not a reaction.
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Well idk avout block infinite I would never be okay with that but I thought we were talking about a juggle not a block string seems Dark Souls had ny mind elsewhere too much and I misunderstood that.
They should definitely fix that if that is the case though this is the first I am hearing about this but I wouldnât say Rash is OP even with that because that is broken not OP because I am sure IG didnât intend to put a infinite block string in the game.