Punishing point blank glacius DP > shadow hail

(A collaborative effort with @aWholio )

Random bit of info he found that we did some testing on, the true blockstring from point blank heavy DP into hail is actually not a true blockstring. Not all the time, anyway.

The thing about shadow hail is, the lower your hurtbox, the longer it takes to hit you. By crouching, most characters can create a gap in the blockstring that they can punish through. An easy way to see if this is possible is simply holding down-forward after blocking the DP–if the hails hit you, you can do something.

The issue here is inputs. Most fireball punishes require you to do some standing input, which means for them to work you’ll have to time your punish so you get the final input after the hail’s already been delayed, and get your shadow move out before you actually reach a standing state. However, all of these difficult punishes become trivial if you activate instinct in the gap.

Anyways, here’s a list of ways characters can punish it. I’m not going to bother with redundant punishes e.g. shadow reversals when you can shadow opener through for full combo. Unless otherwise specified, assume options listed are prohibitively hard or impossible without instinct activation. Please let me know if I missed anything!


DP. Easy! Just use the 323 input shortcut.

Shadow windkick.


Shadow leaping slash. Not too hard. Input as 13KK.


Liquidize can avoid the hails, but can’t punish due to the time required to avoid them all.

Shadow shoulder.

Heavy puddle.


DP. 323 shortcut.

Call of sky dash into triplax for full punish. MUST use instinct activation for this.


DP, 323 shortcut, but it trades. Shadow DP is ■■■, and whiffs entirely.

Shadow slide.


Shadow spin.

Web. Only possible with instinct ACTIVATION; otherwise you’ll get counterhit.


DP, 323 shortcut.

Orchid has no option to full punish this, anything she tries after instinct activation other than DP will be counter hit.


Shadow boneshaker DOES NOT have frame 1 invul, it WILL lose.

Teleport into shadow sword or shadow skull.

Heavy boneshaker. Trades, but he can still pick up the combo!


DP. 323 shortcut. HP avoids fully, LP trades (for more KD advantage.)

Shadow blade dash.


Roll. doable without instinct activation, but tough. Doesn’t punish.

Instinct roll. FULL PUNISH BAYBEE!


Shadow tumble kick.


Shadow clutch.



Shadow talon rake.

Run back HK trades for full hits so, do you really want to do it?


Shadow form won’t punish but is easy to use without instinct and gets you a left/right mixup.

Light orda trades, don’t bother.

Shadow slide punishes.


The mill which had worked them down, was the mill that grinds young people old; the children had ancient faces and grave voices; and upon them, and upon the grown faces, and ploughed into every furrow of age and coming up afresh, was the sigh, Hunger. It was prevalent everywhere. too tall


Shadow ORZ.


Shadow Trailblazer.


Shadow shotgun blitz.

Light DP trades for full hits.


A slightly delayed parry will destroy all the hails, but mashing it will leave one active to hit you. Dragon cancelling will avoid it and net you a combo.

Shadow dragon dance. Difficult without activation, but doable enough that it’s worth practicing.

Shadow dragon kick. Same as above, only listed due to its high damage.


Shadow shoulder. VERY doable without activation, not sure why it’s so easy for such a big guy.

LP DP. 323 shortcut. Trades with one hit

In instinct, with good timing you can use conqueror to avoid the hails, then cancel to DP for a juggle. If you don’t cancel you’ll always get hit.


Hunger was pushed out of the tall houses, in the wretched clothing that hung upon poles and lines; Hunger was patched into them with straw and rag and wood and paper; Hunger was repeated in every fragment of the small modicum of firewood that the man sawed off; Hunger stared down from the smokeless chimneys, and stared up from the filthy street that had no offal, among its refuse, of anything to eat. too tall


Shadow headbutt.

Now, for possibly the most entertaining punish on this list…If rash activates instinct and doesn’t do shadow headbutt, he’s getting hit by that hail. If he crouches he’s just screwed. However, if he stands, the hail hits him before the bike reaches, and the bike goes through him due to the hitstun, hitting glacius. After rash has recovered from hail, he can manual any headbutt and continue the combo.


Shadow trephine.


Hunger was the inscription on the baker’s shelves, written in every small loaf of his scanty stock of bad bread; at the sausage-shop, in every dead-dog preparation that was offered for sale. Hunger rattled its dry bones among the roasting chestnuts in the turned cylinder; Hunger was shred into atomics in every farthing porringer of husky chips of potato, fried with some reluctant drops of oil. too tall…




Shadow shoulder and shadow DP both work. Just know that shadow shoulder will always follow up with a shadow linker because you’ve activated instinct.

LP DP works, but because it goes airborne early it will trade into a knockdown.


with RAAM and Gargos its only a block string if they were pretty much touching point blank. If they have any bit of space out from that they can do stuff

RAAM can do HK emergence to destroy all the hail and hit glacius for the KD
or shadow run to run through the hail and grab him

Gargos needs to be a bit farther out than RAAM to get a gap.
Gargos can just get Shadow Psycho crusher.
activating instinct is a bad idea unless your just gonna burst right after, cause youre gonna take some damage,

its interestign with these 2 because you can kinda mash it due to the absolute guarding. If it was a blockstring, you just stay blocking, but if the gap is there, you get your move.

since this is point blank that means the farther out you are the easier it gets to do a reversal right, at some point possibly even being able to do fireball motions withou instinct

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Yes, most characters will be able to shadow through pretty easily past point blank range.

Cool bit of info! I’ll keep it in mind. Wish I could try the non-instinct pop QCB/QCF moves just to see how hard it is, but alas.

It feels like it requires frame perfect timing and 100% clean execution. You have to go from the last possible frame of crouching directly to the forward or back input, and input your punches or kicks on the same frame.

Can you not use some buffer here? Like do QCB -> down-back and delay your button press (ie, start mashing) and catch the special move buffer window?

No, the problem is that doing that will make you stand during the period where you need to be crouching to delay the hail. You need to be crouching until the first possible frame to act, so buffering the special doesn’t work. For some characters there’s more leeway, due to unique crouching hurtboxes and pushback interactions.

It would really help if you could make a video about it.

Not sure what a video would convey that this post doesn’t, except maybe for the rash thing which is kind of confusing. It’s really simple, you just crouch block after blocking the DP and mash instinct, then do a move that punishes.

Visual aid.

Oh and I’m having a hard time imagining all of this:

i’m kind of glad someone showed this. not a lot people punish this accordingly so I take advantage of it. It’s not broken and that’s something I mention quite often with glacius

Heres an example of Riptors solution. I dont use instinct, and you don’t have to with nearly ALL of these cases, but it makes things a lot easier to do

said vid:


I tried but I didn’t get it with leaping slash. I see the gap and everything but my character is blocked in stun animation. I managed to get a c.MK as counterhit but no good. Tried buffering the shadow, tried doing it during the gap and just didn’t get it. Same happened with the shadow inferno “make it safe” after Cinder’s trailblazer, though I got it once at least that time.

Every time… :sob:

Don’t leave a crouching position when inputting it. Sabrewulf can input shadow leaping slash as 13KK.

Doesn’t kan ra now get to shadow grab

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I’ll have to test it when 3.6 is playable. We don’t know if it’s frame 1 invul.

please remind me that motion, I’m classic U-UF, F, DF, D, DB, B, UB.