I would like to make a pararelism about the launcher ender and Tusk’s skewer.
Skewer is a very obvious break point. After any HKD, if you see Tusk performing Skewer, you have two options:
-Break it
-Don’t break it
Tusk has also 2 options:
-Do a CB
-Do nothing
So, possible outcomes:
-Tusk does nothing, you don’t break it: He gets advantage and PD
-Tusk does nothing, you break it: you get better positioning and recover some PD
-Tusk does a CB, you break it: He gets a CB for no less than 40% damage
-Tusk does a CB, you don’t break it: you get an opening for a combo
My question: do you find Skewer useful? Because IMO it’s VERYgood. Orchid’s launcher works in a similar way: You can get similar outcomes. Is it worth for you? Maybe not. But it has its uses. Its not useless
It’s risky, since if you fail a CB you could get a big punish(or not, you could break it!), but if you are right… Oh boy…
It has very situational uses, but overall I don’t like it and I belive it could use some short of rework
Once again I’ll leave my personal thoughts. As far as the double linkers go, I think it would be more useful if it applied to ALL Orchids linkers instead of just INS linkers. It would also be cool to be able to switch from say INS to blockade linker, or blockade to flick flack linker mid combo. This concept is sort of already in the game but you must use meter to do so to make it a shadow linker. Double linkers being limited to only INS is somewhat fair, but not a complete combo trait or at least doesn’t live up to the name “double linkers” in my humble opinion. Also, with negative edge in the game now(or at least more prevalent) , and the quick double button presses/release Orchid requires for double linkers, this poses a problem. Orchid players are getting unintended strengths from past auto-doubles on linkers and double linkers button press/release instead of the intended strength of the button presses. This leads to unwanted autodoubles instead of the double linker trait intended, amongst various other things. A simple option of being able to turn off negative edge in option menu would most likely fix this. It would also fix some of the breaker issues that players have been running into as of late. If this is turning into an Orchid wishlist thread, it would be nice to see her be able to dash cancel backward out of Ichi Nise (charge). I mean Jago gains life and he can do it so why not allow Orchid the luxury of a better mix-up game. Also better frame data on a special move or 2 would be nice or less recovery frames for grenade. EVERY special move she has ends up in negative frames on block with the exception of a half charge Ichi Nise (+5 on block). Her instinct somewhat makes up for all the negative frame data, but could use some fine tuning. In instinct, her cats make her safer yes but even while getting combod and a cat clearly hitting the opponent, some characters can still continue the combo after the cat hits like nothing happened. Shouldn’t a projectile connecting at least shift momentum back to neutral unless a special trait is involved?(I.e. Kim firecracker, any armor character eating up projectiles, ect) Making Orchid be able to recover faster from grenade throw startup(currently 12 no charge and 39 full charge), would make up for the negative frame data she has on her special moves in my opinion. Perhaps just bring down the full charge startup from 39 or make it dash cancelable as well. For comparison Aria half charge HK is 20 startup full charge HK is 14 startup and dash cancelable both directions. All just suggestions. Hoping my wishlist would make her more fair, and not OP. If ALL these things make her too strong, then maybe just a few would make her a little better instead of just all. These are all just thoughts of putting her in the right directions. Thanks for reading!
I know this is a bit iffy guys but remember you can still counter break if someone tries to break the air throw. that would be the easiest way to deal with it is to simply add the counter breaker into your mix ups.
Though I can see the dissapointment issues as I remember when Fulgore got changed alot so obviously adjusting your style can be a pain in the ■■■.
She needs some potential damage in the juggles. Right now she has the ability to juggle a lot, but with nothing gained. Like give me a reason to go for that flik flak juggling. As is I just go for a single hit or air throw into setup (I’m not in the boat that launcher is useless and avoid counter breaking like the plague).
Her shadow dp is a little weak now because it was initially built that you would do an air throw follow up every time. Now that it’s breakable you have one of the weakest shadow dp in the game. Instead of a raw damage buff, I wish it allowed for more follow ups beyond just air throw.
Lastly, juggle breakers. Getting put into a mix-up off of these still bugs me
Probably a collection of people of varying levels of skill and experience (both as and against Orchid) providing differing opinions on where she balances out in the KI cast. In particular, in regards to juggles, break opportunities, and damage.
At least, that’s what I’ve gleamed from skimming through. I could be wrong. I’ve actually forgotten about most of the thread’s contents because I’m kinda slow. http://www.clubs.uci.edu/cae/a/src/1443901498806.gif
In summary, I want Orchid’s Flick Flack ender nerfed, and airthrow to be unbreakable.
So basically a burf.
I THINK ORCHID IS BALANCED!! ( I type this in caps because people know i love to beg for buffs )
This is a really small ask, and probably won’t happen but oh well you never know until you try.
My SUGGESTION to IG as a primary Orchid player, if they want to keep the air throw as breakable, is to add one more air target combo. She currently has MP then HK or LK then HP. The latter is irrelevant since it starts with a light, which is the same as an air throw. Someone can guess break with light and 2/3 times be right. I SUGGEST adding a HK then MK air combo option. This will align her with other characters like Cinder and Sadira.
The OTHER KEY SUGGESTION is to lower the KV meter impact from the air target combos. It blows out way too quickly to enjoy her juggles.
One final note is Orchid announcing her air throw. “Gotcha!” Compared to other air capture characters (Cinder, Gargos), this puts her at a disadvantage. If they want to keep it balanced, her “gotcha” sound would come after the break window has passed, so it’s not so obvious.
I don’t think orchid is “degenerate”. A lot of KI players don’t enjoy the risk of being broken. The strength in the pure launcher ender is that you can tack on extra damage, with the cost of it being broken.
The design of her exchange ender now is that 1)you can still follow up with buttons from it, 2) it’s being exploited as a 50/50 cross up with a bomb to protect you. I think her exchange ender should strictly do its job and JUST switch sides with the opponent. Kind of like how sadiras exchange ender changed in season 3.
Let the launcher ender lead to a juggle, but if you don’t follow up it’ll be a HDK. That way you have an ender that has multiple uses. The benefit of the exchange Ender is that you can vortex with it because the opponent won’t recover fast. Plus the positioning of the opponent allows for you to apply better pressure.
Making the grab unbreakable leads to degenerate ground bounce season 2 shenanigans. I do not agree with that.
Wulf juggles are easy to break, they break me all the time (people that has no respect I mean). TJ can recapture with a special move, Wulf can’t recapture without a shadow and the damage is not worth IMO unless the person has a lock out or you are baiting a counter breaker. I can tell I’ve been recapturing a lot this last days and some would break you right away while others won’t even try it. But if we talk about damage, I believe TJ takes a good damage from the lockouts (using auto barrage) and juggles, not Wulf, I get more damage on the ground.
I like the idea of reworking the risk reward of her air throw. Currently it’s an overly-easy-breakable juggle, and I don’t use it outside of lockouts. I would love to see it be a complete recapture or go back to unbreakable with reduced/no damage. Otherwise simply remove her airthrow and give her a flipout.
Because if you are right, you get more damage. A LOT more damage. And even in that case, you could end with a HKD ender. So if you are right, you have better reward than “going safe”.
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