Omen Match-Up Discussion

Characters Omen
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Hello fellas!

I always wanted some short of “summary” of ideas for each match up with each character, and with this in mind, I want to recopilate here some advices and tricks for each match-up.

My suggestion: we talk about a specific match up, and we get a consensus about our strengths, our weak spots, tips, and finally if the match up it’s favorable or not for us. I suggest tree possibilitys regarding this: Favorable, mostly even, Unfavorable. So maybe we can use this schem:

Jago
Match-up outcome: Mostly even/Sightly in Omen’s favor
Strenghts: Omen has better footsies, zoning tools, mobility and corner pressure
Weakness: Jago’s damage output and instinct punishes hard Omen’s mistakes. Get aware that shadow wind kick can punish rashakuken midscreen
Tips: Avoid fullscreen demon slide, loses to wind kick, bait antiairs with shadow form, use combo trait and instinct to nullify Jago’s shadow meter, which Jago needs in order to escape pressure and restoring life during instinct
Useful posts: 3-17

Sabrewulf
Match-up outcome:
Strenghts:
Weakness:
Tips:

Glacius
Match-up outcome:
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Weakness:
Tips:

Thunder
Match-up outcome:
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Weakness:
Tips:

Sadira
Match-up outcome:
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Weakness:
Tips:

Orchid
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Weakness:
Tips:

Spinal
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Weakness:
Tips:

Fulgore
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Weakness:
Tips:

TJ Combo
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Weakness:
Tips:

Maya
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Weakness:
Tips:

Kan-Ra
Match-up outcome:
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Weakness:
Tips:

Riptor
Match-up outcome:
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Weakness:
Tips:

Omen
Match-up outcome: Omen totally bodies Omen
Strenghts:
Weakness:
Tips:

Aganos
Match-up outcome:
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Weakness:
Tips:

Hisako
Match-up outcome:
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Tips:

Cinder
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ARIA
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Rash
Match-up outcome:
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Reserved for future characters

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I suggest start talking about just one character, get consensus, and then move to the next.

Being Omen in some ways part of Jago, let’s start by Jago himself!

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I was playing Omen in shadows mode the other night, created like 5 omen shadows then deleted them afterward.

You know the first training Jago? The zoning heavy one? Well… I outzoned the crap out of him every single time. And I’m not a super regular Omen player.

Anyone else feel like Omen has a big leg up on Jago in terms of zoning?

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My main zoning strategy against a particular Jago shadow is this:

Throw HVY rash constantly … play footsies gong forward and as soon as he trys to jump in…Heavy standing round house kick.
REPEAT

this works for just about every one except Sadira and CInder… but man if you pull this method off correctly… its unstoppable. Kind of boring but very powerful. I have even almost gotten a PERFECT on opponents like this.

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I disagree. This is definitely a 8-2 matchup in Omen’s favor. Omen just can’t deal with Omen’s mobility and zoning. Once Omen gets Omen into the corner, it’s pretty much a done deal. Just ask anyone, they’ll tell you that Omen is basically free to Omen.

#buffomen

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@Marbledecker LOL
The Chuck Norris Paradox. There’s no denying, if Chuck Norris were able to time travel and meet another one of himself, and they fought, Chuck Norris would win. Period.

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Fixed ^^ Now it reflects the real outcome of the fight

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Jago:
Match-Up outcome: Mostly equal
Strengths: Shadow form allows pressure escape, demon loop/instinct cripples Jago’s approach attempts and Instinct
Weakness: The low damage outcome against Jago’s damage makes a breach even bigger if Jago is able to use properly his Instinct, shadow wind kick it’s very effective against rashakukens, tiger fury it’s very effective against air dash-approaches

In paper, Jago and Omen share a lot. Both of them have projectiles, a shadow projectile inmune move that travels far forward, good corner pressure, normally both have shadow meter to spare, and their kick normals are similar.

Jago wins in damage and it’s harder to break in his combos, coupled with his instinct, which heals him a lot if used properly, makes a long fight for Omen, whose low damage forces to commit even more better reads in this combat to achieve the victory. Jago’s tiger fury also gives him some sky control, so Omen can’t air-dash freely over him. Also, wind kick beats demon slide, so be careful about using long distance Slides, and if shadow version hit pushes forward enough to move both fighters away from most of the rashakukens, given it’s projectile immunity properties.

In the other hand, Jago’s relatively slow dash and slower walkspeed gives Omen some advantage in the footsies, and a meterless Jago has a long way to reach Omen. Maybe Omen it’s not the best zoner given the rashakuken’s randomness, but he is capable enough to mantain almost fullscreen a meterless Jago. If both players activate instinct at the same time, the extra rashakuken and the meter lock properties favors Omen over Jago’s double endokuken. This is also true for demon loop, wich allows to control the space of the combat if Omens uses a ender that kicks away Jago.

Jago’s corner pressure it’s very good, and he builds a lot of meter while blocking him. Shadow form comes here to get away/interrupt earlier this pressure than most of the rest of the cast. Never get caught in the corner without meter against Jago, as orda shield isn’t a good reversal, so blocking will be almost your only option.

It’s safer to aproach Jago by ground than air, given the threat of tiger fury, using Omen’s better footsies game. If Jago doesn’t have meter, cover yourself with rashakukens, and approach by footsies.

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I noticed yesterday while playing jagoblake, that using the air dash to demon teleport* , was good when needing to bait the uppercut punish. Also it was very effective at making the jago player think twice about anti-airing every air approach. Omen with meter is at a great advantage but playing defense is a must.

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I would love to hear some Jago’s players opinion about Omen-Jago match up, so we can have the feedback of both Omen and Jago players and make this thread less biased(After all, it’s common to “overvalue” our mains tools against other characters)

I went to the Jago’s forum and pick some of the most frequent posting users there. Feel free to add anybody to the topic.

@SIRJAYLEGEND, @SigmaAngelus, @Fnrslvr @SullenMosquito, what’s your opinion about the Omen-Jago match up?

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I’m pretty sure @Infilament plays a mean Jago…

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He was going to be my next guest XD

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JAGO VS OMEN

From my experience i feel Omen has all the tools needed to destroy jago and give him a really hard time. However i don’t think there are enough good omen players that showcase the full extent of the character.

Of the decent omen players I’ve played I find once you figure out there game plan and take away what ever gimmick it is they rely on they are finished.

Omen can play smart and zone Jago with his multiple fireballs and make an approach to open Jago up, lock him out and then lock out his meter which is a thing Jago needs in this match up. if the omen player is smart he can defeat even a good Jago player by frustrating him, constantly keeping him out and advancing when he feels like it.

A lot of Omen players make the mistake of becoming predictable with there shadow Phase out move. I’ve come across several omen players that will Phase out after every unsafe attack/string on block or on wake up. if they don’t have meter they will always use Orda Shield it becomes predictable and once that happens Jago simply out damages omen.

…
For this reason I don’t like characters having too many tools the player becomes less creative with them and generally falls into an autopilot style of play.
KI matches are like surgery if you remove a vital o-r-g-a-n (why is that censored?) from the player they can’t function simple as. and this is easier with character with more tools its just more organs to choose from.

VERDICT
In this Match up it ultimately comes down to the players, Omen may have more tools than Jago but his damage out put forces him to rely heavily on mixups and reads. that alone IMO makes this Match Up 5-5 based on my experience.

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Jago has to jump or block the random screen Rashakuken coverage that occurs until there’s a pattern the Omen player feels they can move in with either a Demon Slide or a Shadow Form. Jago can’t just jump in or Omen will kick him out of the sky.

Finding the right spacing to either backdash and whiff a Demon Slide or stuff a Neck Cutter into the Slide, sometimes the Shadow Form, are the defensive options Jago seems limited to without giving too much opening.
Double Roundhouse into a Light Tiger Fury or Heavy Laser Sword requires knowing which is spaced for but are good for countering poorly timed incoming Omens. Medium Windkicks from the Double Roundhouse against a well placed Shadow Form (maybe even a Slide) can help get away instead of being punished, without going too far and giving Omen back his space.

Overall, it’s a defensive poke and bait game for Jago, offensive pressure game for Omen. Jago gets the inherent damage to keep himself in the game but only if he can make good reads in defending against Shadow Meter lockouts. Omen gets to keep Jago from using his bread and butter moves but has to hit him much more due to less damage.
Combo Breakers and well placed reversals are Jagos main strategy to get a chance to return pressure. Omen can extend his damage with Counter Breakers while also locking out Jago’s comeback damage potential.

It can feel heavy in Omen’s favour because Omen is random in his pattern use and Jago very consistent. If Jago can keep Omen out of combo and hit with heavy counters or reversals, he doesn’t need the combo damage. If Omen can end his combos properly, he always has a way to bait or stuff Jago.
Sometimes it’s all Omen, others the Jago will shatter-point strike all of the random kinks in the Rashakuken zoning.

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Not sure I have any particularly stunning insight into the Jago vs Omen match, since I haven’t played (or watched) it much at all.

I imagine it’s one of the more heavy footsies matches in the game, because Jago has great tools to keep Omen out of the air, and Omen is a character that I’d say edges Jago out on the ground, so he probably wants to stay there anyway most of the time.

Jago obviously wins on damage and I give Omen the edge in footsies and corner control (Omen is easily the best corner control character in the game IMO). Maybe Omen slightly wins because of better control and more meter but I don’t think it’s a runaway for anyone.

Some random comments on Omen while I’m here:

  • He does more damage than you think now, after the ender buffs (can easily push 50% with one or two bars spent + a lockout). He’s probably about equivalent to most of the S2 cast, to be perfectly honest. I think it’s a misnomer that Omen does poor damage now.
  • Shadow slide is SO good, people should be using that a lot more. It’s a 100% always safe full screen footsies low; it costs a bar, but Omen is never short on those.
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The Jago Match up has been updated.

Feel free to add more to the Jago match up if you wish. I would like to suggest Sadira as our next guest. What do you think about the Sadira-Omen match up?

Sadira sub-forum users, whats your opinion of this MU?

@WebNRaGnArOk, @MoBVertigo, @R1stormrider, @C88TexAce, @STORM179…

Edit: Added “useful posts”, a group of posts where you can find info about each MU in this thread

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Omen has a hard time dealing with Sadira’s mobility, of which can make things very frustrating for him. Much of his ground mix ups are nullified if the Sadira player knows how to handle herself in the air.

Most Omen fighters that I win against make a huge mistake by running to the far side of the screen and spamming Rashakukens. The problem here is that this gives Sadira ample time to dodge and strike.

The best thing Omen lure the Sadira player to them and then use his Sabrewulf attack to prevent her mix ups (as it is very safe for Omen (in my opinion). Once he’s knocked her down, then assault her with Rashakukens (light or Medium).

They will keep her grounded and give Omen a safe barrier to slide in and continue the assault. If Omen corners her, he can then start using throw mix ups.

In my opinion though due to Omen’s design, this is an uphill battle, especially against Sadiras who know what they are doing. But with patience, even the best can be beaten.

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I think the Sadira/Omen MU is more or less even. They both have pretty solid ways to shut the other down, though I think Omen has to change up his gameplan a bit to make the fight really work.

For starters, Omen players should realize that running away with rashokukens is largely not a viable strategy against Sadira. Sadira can get around most of his fireball patterns if she chooses, and sitting still and blocking them to build meter is also a very strong option for her in that it gives her access both to shadow demon blade (which is very strong in this fight, both raw and as a shadow counter) and shadow web cling. Omen can run from Sadira (slide is a great way to get under her while she’s jumping), but he cannot do so while maintaining much offense himself, and he will eventually get clipped by her.

Once she’s knocked him down, I think Sadira kind of bl.ows Omen up. Wakeup orda is almost always a terrible option and shadow form is largely unhelpful in dealing with her aerial mixups since he tends to come out of it just in time to get tagged by whatever jump+button she’s coming down with. Meaty medium widow’s bite on Omen’s wakeup is very strong in this MU - if you need to get away from her and she’s right on top of you, shadow slide is probably Omen’s best escape option I think. Though of course that isn’t invincible at all, so if she decided to meaty you’re getting punished.

Once he knocks her down, Omen’s pressure game is similarly difficult for Sadira to deal with, though I think she handles his pressure better than he handles hers overall. In terms of opening you up, a good Sadira has to put up with far dirtier stuff than what Omen usually outputs. Her shadow counter is fast enough to punish even normal->light rashokuken, so if she has meter she has pretty good options for shutting him down on offense. Most of Omen’s best strings are pretty shadow counterable, so I think that it’s something you have to keep in mind on his side. I think Omen’s aerial and shadow form mixups are his best tools in this fight, with shadow form in particular really shining offensively in the match. And has already been stated, Omen’s corner game is pretty amazing, so cornering Sadira should always be a goal. Doubly so since shadow web cling is useless in the corner. Also remember that Omen has pretty good buttons in the air - Omen tends to beat Sadira when they meet air-to-air, just because she’s generally up there to try and throw a kunai, and Omen is pretty free to just drop kick her in the face.

All in all I think the fight is pretty even, with perhaps a slight advantage to Sadira just because she’ll generally hit harder than Omen does. The imbalance isn’t anywhere near big enough to put the MU outside the 5-5 range though - whether you win or lose is really more on you than any great imbalance between the two characters.

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I saw this post a while ago but didn’t reply due to lack of knowledge. I’ll be back later with my analysis. Before that though tell me, how do I attach vids, not links, to posts?

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