So has Omens! THe end of his Ultra doesnt connect and thus he doesnt build the 3rd shadow meter. You cant do 3 shadow orda shield for styling off your ultra 
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As long as it doesnt beat invincible reversals and crouching HP Im good. But right now he can beat out my Light Orda shield every time if timed correctly…which isnt hard to do…just mash Jump HP! I dont know what else could change about it… thats pretty much the issue is it beats “everything” it comes in contact with, (it seems like anyway) No matter how early you hit the button you just get “dunked” as you like to say. lol
**** Those of us participating in Absolute Battle…it may not be a good idea to DL the update as you will be practicing on a different patch than the tournament for 3 days!..Just saying.
Looking forward to seeing the patch notes. 
Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of those conversations. Honestly, I believe a lot of overreaction. Then again, I’ve played as him for two seasons just about, so I know a little better on how to block him. Still, without some of the buffs he got, he would be lost to season 3. There’s no way he could be a contender in this season without some of his new tools.
Thing is, I see a lot of parallels between him and M.Bison’s SF4 situation. Yeah, his tools are solid and powerful on paper, but playing as him is a cerebral game, just like Bison. At higher level play, he’s really mentally taxing to use for some reason. Being mindful is his footsie range is extremely important, and patient approach to safely get in takes time. There’s little he can do at extreme range that can’t be countered in some manner. People will say he’s strong, but those who see what he is on paper without using him overly inflate the expressed usefulness of some of his toolkit without realizing there’s a proper context to use each part of that toolkit, defined by a very narrow guideline. Thunder’s DP becoming a swiss army knife like it is now gives him a great deal more variety to his gameplay I don’t think most people prepared for when they fight him, simply because so many people have either already embraced season 3 characters or other favorites from later in the game’s lifespan to be prepared to fight him. He’s encountered so little online, no one really expects him and is prepared for him when they do, which lends to his perceived strength without realizing the effort expended on playing him.
I like that he has his new followups to the DP simply because a turtle Fulgore now has a much more difficult time running away like he once could (see KI EVO finals 2015, Guttermagic vs Rico Suave). A lot of characters still have ways of shutting down his approach into his good range, which is even more evident in season 3.
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twiddling thumbs
So… what timezone is this update coming from?
I know the IG office is in Chicago, which makes it quarter to 11 there… and they said AM, right?
OOOOHHHHH THE IMPATIENCE!!!
I personally wished they adjusted Thunder to play more like an Extreme Alex rather than a Extreme Bison. I feel like both Thunder and Alex are examples of Strike-Grapplers. I know Keits doesn’t particularly see Thunder as among the Grapplers and more of a Hybrid but I think Thunder’s grappling game should be the thing being broadened over his DP game. Or atleast Broaden his Triplax and slightly adjust his grabs instead of this DP madness.
To me if they remove invincibility off of Thunder’s l.sammamish and removed the ground-bounce off his Skyfall, BUT if they gave ALL of his Grabs a Dark Blue and Light Blue hit-box things would feel more proper. If they gave Thunder Armor on the frame of each immediate Swing of his Ax during Shadow Triplax, increased his overall reach with Shadow Triplax, and on Whiff increased it’s Speed while maintaining it’s range, it would improve him in areas better than his Wild DP foolery. It would also look better, and fit Thunder’s character as a Tank better as well.
-His Command Grab, and Back Grab should be able to grab Air-Born oppenents
-His Triplax should have Armor on the frame where his Axe Faces his Opponent, Increased Range, and Increase Speed on Whiff
All better than just DP>DP<DP<DP<DP ya know?
I don’t think the DP itself is the big issue. It’s the absurdity of Skyfall on block. Personally, I don’t see the issue with Thunder having a reversal. My issue is that he can cross up at ranges that don’t visually make any sense whatsoever, while stuffing most punish attempts outright, if you block the reversal. Having a DP blocked should not be an enabler of offense. In my opinion, it’s just as stupid, if not worse, than Maya’s DP>dagger shenanigans. At least Maya’s daggers visually make contact with the character that blocks them. Thunder can be WAY behind you and still “connect” with Skyfall, even though VISUALLY he’s stomping empty air at absurd distances.
3 Likes
It does look pretty retarded when thunder is spamming uppercut skyfall everywhere lol
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Really wanting to see these patch notes - I’m curious on what adjustments they’re making, not just to Eyedol (who is silly and will probably remain largely so). Keits mentioned “quality of life” balances, so I’m really interested to see what those are. I’ve got some ideas, and kind of curious if any of those things were touched.
I don’t know what that means. 
So…his command grab should be inescapable? 
On the Thunder front, while I’d take a loss of his invincible DP, I’d settle for skyfall just having a reasonable hitbox. That thing hits you when his feet aren’t actually even making contact with your character o_O
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“Quality of life?”
I hope it can give my character more life online 
We’re waiting…
jk; but srs.
No we’re not. Start the DL.
The patch notes are in the news section if anyone hasn’t seen it yet.
Thanks! Had to restart the console.
Of course not, its a low air grab half the height of the dark blue, maybe even less very low. But it’ll be effective on falling opponents with great timing. Follow-Up rather than anti-air.
It’ll be super stupid hard to make it work on pre-jump frames. The light blue grab box doesnt appear instantly of course. So if one is anticipating a grab holding up would still work.
I thought those were the old patch notes from the Eyedol update.
He’s had this for two seasons previous to season 3. Why is it all of a sudden an issue then? I would probably say people don’t like it being abused to the point where he’s fishing for a ground bounce into combo attempt, but this tool, DP into skyfall has ALWAYS existed, with or without a ground bounce, but it’s also insanely negative on block. The hitbox has ALWAYS been that large, and it’s ALWAYS been unsafe, I didn’t see anyone complain in previous seasons. I don’t see why it should even be an issue now, except now he has a real mixup game plan.
Except she is safe on block when she uses her daggers to protect her landing recovery. Thunder is pretty much an open target on block for his follow up, and like ChanChula pointed out (in another conversation), it’s not difficult to block, but anticipation and knowing his trajectory is the key to blocking correctly. I think people just play against Thunder so rarely now, it’s a very little known matchup people are unprepared for and this one tool is considering seemingly OP.
Then again, for season 1 and most of 2 I played Thunder almost exclusively. I know his ranges, his movements, and how to block him. The only thing at issue is making a blocked skyfall safe using a crows dash. If you are turning an unsafe DP, with unsafe mixup followup options safe on block with that dash, then that may be a step far, since a usually surefire punish then give him another mixup off of an already strong mixup.
Thunder’s balance is difficult to touch, in season 1, he had his flaws but except for fulgore, he was pretty decently matched against everyone and was in a great place. In season 2, he was just underprepared and underpowered, and was little fun to use after a while, which is why I switched to a Cinder main. I still like playing him once in a while though. In season 3 he’s really strong and a contender given the craziness that’s been added to the game. I don’t have a problem with flipouts and staggers, Street Fighter 4 had both of those long before we ever had them in KI, they just make it to where Thunder has to be ready in some manner to be able to combat the new and old cast fitted with these new tools. He can do with a little toning down, but I’d like his light Sammamish to remain a true invincible, since it has no follow up, you should be able to see when it’s coming practically, since it’s only good at point blank range, lacking no real forward carry.
If he lost the ability to cancel his blocked skyfall into a crows dash, I could see that being fair. But DP into skyfall, dropkick or knee is hardly OP, and I don’t see it going anywhere. Skyfall has existed for 3 seasons, and has been breakable for 2. I don’t know how the fate of a skyfall ground bounce will go either, as that one is strong, but I don’t see it being OP either, given it’s part of his juggle game, which is something the developers have been trying to push for every character just about as much as it is to go into the grounded combo game.
As opposed to when the move had a special input buffer window on it with no follow up? It’s been reigned in if you can actually believe it.
People tend to be a lot more forgiving of nonsense hitboxes when the move in question only leads to a knockdown. Their tolerance goes down quite a bit when the nonsense hitbox leads to a highly damaging loop that also presents opportunities for damage cashout and a standing reset. There is a substantial difference between getting clipped by S1 and S2 skyfall versus S3 skyfall.
5 Likes
Yeah, and that’s why I said a proposed nerf to removing the crows dash cancel on block isn’t a completely unfair request. Even with it in though, it’s not so much a loop, as at best you’ll only have it one time in your block string pressure. However, if you were to reign in that one particular aspect and remove the dash cancel ability of it, no complaints from me. However, it seems more like people are requesting more fundamental changes to skyfall and the DP in general, and that doesn’t sit well with me.
-32 on block is a pretty good window to let them know they shouldn’t DP shenanigans against a wise opponent experienced in the matchup. Though I guess a little more negative on block wouldn’t kill it, since most DP’s tend to have even bigger recovery windows, despite only one version is actually invincible startup right now. If anything, maybe make an empty, no follow up DP -30 or so on block and a blocked skyfall a little higher?
This, x10000
Fast cross up into knockdown, unsafe on block? Ok
Fast cross up into mixup between 30ish% damage or flipout into mixup for grounded combo? Well, my lawyer has something funny to tell you…