In all seriousness, from my experience playing as Gargos I can see how at a low level (not saying you are) how portal punches and minions can be annoying, especially when used in uninison, but when I’m playing ranked portal punches are still quite a bit of a gamble. If I hit low or mid, they may jump out of it. If I hit low or high, they may dash forward…or they may just bypass it all and teleport do a projectile invincible move and get in close anyway. Minions…it’s hard to get them both out & working effectively before they’ve taken enough hits to die…then goes a shadow meter I could have saved for something else. Everything he does that you mentioned is such a gamble because of his lousy defense.
& as far as jumping attacks, I prefer MK…seems to work better for me.
Another Gargos player I don’t really like to use the minions and if I do I greatly prefer Izzik, Dretch throws me off completely. Little tard! Keits is right he’s so disobedient lol!
For the record I dont totally agree with the OPs post,
(New chars removing fundamentals from the game)
…but I do think Gargos is…difficult… different… obnoxious. Id rather fight Eyedol and his Jumping HP any day!!!
If a person can’t pull off a combo in SFV, they certainly don’t have any worthwhile “pure footsie/neutral game” to speak of. Nobody in SFV is winning without optimal combos and conversions off their openings, except maaaaaybe Justin (but even he will start losing more regularly unless he optimizes).
I’m growing tired of people applying the concept of “I’m so good at grounded footsies and whiff punishing that I don’t even have to learn how the rest of the game works” to SFV. It has never been true of any fighting game and it won’t be true of this game. People who think they have good neutral and don’t need to use combos actually don’t.
Cool.
I dunno why you think that. It’s just as easy for a noob to land a few mixups with Mika as it is for them to do random special moves in KI and hope the opponent doesn’t break and start his own offense up, which will likely carry them until the end of the life bar. True beginner players stand no chances against moderately intermediate players in both games. In fact, I’d say KI is harder to win in many ways. But maybe our definition of “noob” and “ok player” don’t align.
KI is a chaotic game (moreso than others), but it’s not really that much more chaotic than Season 1. And certainly, SFV is proving to be a rather chaotic version of SF, with 8f lag making meaties and anti-air difficult and the top tier characters being those that can capitalize the most on scrambles, repeated 50/50s after one combo + full screen corner carry, and/or have airtight pressure.
Really? With all due respect, I’d rather not fight Eyedol in his current state at all. I’ve heard of hard to win matchups, but Eyedol takes the cake personally for most broken character of the last patch (hoepfully when he’s ironed out he’ll be nicely balanced).
It depends on who you are using i guess. But I personally have less trouble against Eyedol and more against Gargos grabs, resets, Minions and portal punches… plus the areal attacks.
With Eyedol I know exactly what they are going for…Jumping HP with a recapture. Most of the time its either MP or HP that they use to continue the recapture. If you get one right and break it you know they are most likely going for the other strength next time.
Yeah, it really depends on a person’s primary characters as to how they feel about Gargos and Eyedol. Listen to most people on this board and Gargos is “well balanced, GET GUD SCRUB”. But I still have yet to see a single person point me to video of a good Sabrewulf fighting a good Gargos and doing even remotely well. That matchup is BEYOND retarded. Gargos can just dive at you and float away beyond Wulf’s attack range indefinitely. And once he gets a SINGLE shadow meter for a minion, it is game over. All of the bs about not having good defense is garbage. He’s certainly not the first character to have no DP. Wulf along with quite a few other characters have zero wakeup options until they get meter. So you just learn to block on wake up and wait for your escape or punish opportunity. Gargos not having an invincible DP does not make him a balanced character.
On topic, I tend to agree with the OP. Season 3 seems as though IG just said ‘F IT!’ to the whole restraint thing. We got a hint of that when they took over in season 2, but they found a good balance I think. There are a few ‘honest’ characters in this season but they are more than over shadowed by the characters that seems to have multiple options for every single situation. Arbiter ALWAYS has grenades. They recharge at a rate that makes them essentially infinite for anyone with half a brain. He has PLENTY of bullets for 3 rounds. They are a nether realm style projectile (intant hit, no travel animation) introduced into KI. And he has a near 3/4 screen over head.
Eyedol’s Instinct is essentially a free life bar taken. You WILL get opened up whether you’re in his face or full screen. It’s like Wulf’s season 2 feral cancels. You can only block for so long.
It’s not just that gargos has no DP, he’s also a big target, and unlike wulf he still has no reversal options even when he has meter. Wulf has several strong low profile options; not just hamstring, but his crouching strong/fierce/forward are all excellent quick low profile buttons that can be used to stuff high-hitting moves. This low profile ability isn’t just good for making callouts on high moves during pressure but also makes them great preemptive defensive pokes in neutral, especially against someone like fulgore who has axis slash as a plus, forward moving offensive option in footsie range. Contrast gargos, whose hurtbox during almost all of his crouching moves is almost as large as wulf’s hurtbox while standing; his only low profile option is his standing roundhouse which is super unsafe and very slow.
Simply put, gargos’s poor defense isn’t just present when he’s being pressured or when he’s been knocked down, it’s also present in the midrange game. He starts to sweat before he even has to block anything, and once he’s been forced into midrange it’s risky for him to try to create more space.
He has multiple moves that can push you away or knock you down at mid to long range. His sweep, and instant air jumping hk(? the wing flap move) can control space at mid range with the best characters in the game. Let’s not even get into minions being introduced. Gargos gets no pity from me at mid range. Also large hit box doesn’t equal bad defense in my opinion. It’s still on the player to block or not block. Same as with every other character. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
Seriously, as a player that started after S3 was already deployed and kicking i couldn’t disagree more with your arguments. This game graphics are awesome and the only fact that really explains why you cannot teach SF/MK players how KI works it’s because that they want KI to be like the games they are used to play. I hear these kind of excuses every day when i tell friends that i play KI and i like the game but in the end the truth is that they simple don’t really wanna learn how the game works. This game is not like SF/MK and by the day it become like those i will be the one leaving. I wanna play THIS KI, not a SF5 wannabe.
Both moves are unsafe. His sweep is -10, which means at the least his opponent gets to advance a bit and if it’s not spaced well he’s getting punished. It’s also slow, not that difficult to whiff punish, and will be beat out by low crush moves. Jump HK is in a similar situation, being extremely negative on block, vulnerable to low profile moves, and also pushing him back toward the corner.
A large hurtbox is definitely a defensive issue, it makes you more susceptible to high attacks in neutral/pressure and air-based offense.
I understand the point of view that defense is up to the player and not just about the character’s options, but a discussion of a character’s strengths and weaknesses while ignoring their options is not really a discussion about their strengths or weaknesses.
I can agree that trying to catch Gargos while he’s flying around is really annoying with some characters. Glacius has the same problem. But flying away from me after an air charge? He only gets one jump, and in that time as Wulf I could probably dash forward and be in the range to land a shadow leaping slash if he tries to jump again (this is just speculation, I’m not a Wulf player). Also, once again, unless Gargos is right in your face doing mix up pressure, minions can be taken down safely with a little bit of patience.
Also, I must bring up this point that I’ve brought up a million times, but if everyone is saying that the game was in a decently balanced state at the end of S2 after the high number of complaints that the season had throughout its lifespan, why are we still complaining about the same things with S3 as if the possibility of S3 ending up as a balanced game is out of people’s minds?
Finally, I need to make a topic about how people should play the characters they hate fighting in order to improve. Look forward to that I guess.
Okay, so you spaced it well and they blocked it. Now they get to dash back in on you or use a forward advancing special. And again, it’s slow. 18 frame startup is no joke. The move is risky.
I posted the request in a couple of other threads over the past few months and got no response.
Also I don’t know about him only having one jump. If I’m not mistaken he gets 4 jumps, into a dive (blocked) into 2 jumps, into another dive if he wants. The height of his floating gives him plenty of time to react to whatever you do and prevents you from closing any meaningful distance. Shadow leaping slash is useless in that situation as it has never been a move that travels that far. Running closes some distance but he has plenty of time to react with another dive which will catch you unless you preemptively uppercut.
After his first dive, he can only take one action afterward. So he can dive into you or do an air jump, but only one of them. So if you see him double jump, you don’t have to worry about him diving into you, so you can approach. If he dives into you a second time, his landing trajectory is locked, so he can’t double jump away (there used to be a bug that allowed him to, they fixed it last patch).