Now do any of YOU think/believe that we are seeing/witnessing ever-increasing and unprecedented as well as record-breaking numbers of natural disasters AND weather extremes that are occurring/happening all around, all over the world especially nowadays?
This thread is going to get overrun by people’s ill informed political sloganeering very quickly, I’m afraid.
There are several things happening that make it seem like there are more and more severe natural disasters. First we are hyper informed about events all over the world. It wasn’t that long ago that if there was an earthquake in Iran or a tsunami in Indonesia we just didn’t know. Second, human development all over the world is increasing the associated damage and cost for natural disasters. More people in more places that are vulnerable and the cost of building and rebuilding goes up and up. I’m sitting in Bangladesh right now - a country that had a huge population of 70 million in the 1970s and now has over 140 million. Many people here are very poor and therefore very vulnerable. So a natural disaster is magnified.
I’m a scientist and I think the evidence for climate change - and anthropogenic climate change in particular, is very good. But the evidence that it’s increasing the severity of weather is much less good. Irma is the strongest storm on record but it’s really tough to extrapolate from such a small number of cases. And of course this is very separate from the political discussion of how we address the changing climate and the underlying causes.
Devastating natural disasters have always been a part of human history, with much worse things having happened long, long ago. With that being said, solar cycles have a much greater impact on the severity of natural disasters than anything humans could do in my opinion.
@BigBadAndy is quite correct. The reality is, we are far more informed today than we were even 200 years ago. Our population has vastly increased, so there is more of us to witness devastating weather/ natural events.
It’s kind of like that old saying that if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to see it/ hear it, does it make a sound?
Our world is in a constant state of motion and change. Nothing we do on this world is going to change that, but that doesn’t absolve mankind from any sort of responsibility in taking care of the planet.
That’s very misleading. Irma had the strongest sustained winds ever recorded over the ocean. It was a category 5 storm that weakened to a category 4 before making “landfall” on the US mainland. That’s not an unusual pattern but pretending it only matters when it reaches Florida is disingenuous.
Here’s a nice article detailing Irma’s records: longest sustained winds of 185+ mph, longest lasting category 5 (tied), highest sustained winds to hit the leeward islands etc.
Arguing that having a record extreme if any sort is evidence of anthropogenic climate change is absurd, for many reasons. But among them is the fact that people immediately start arguing with you about the fact that it’s not a record and therefore there must not be anthropogenic climate change. It’s all just a distraction from more important things.
I work in agriculture. Huge agricultural conglomerates that are not staffed by hippies and radical leftists, don’t want to destroy capitalism or the US economy, and have no vested interest in propagating any particular narrative about climate change accept the reality that the world is getting warmer. They are quietly adjusting their crop breeding and development programs to account for the changes that they observe in the agricultural environment. Because they can’t afford to deny the reality.
I think there is a very important discussion to be had about how we adapt, if and how we reduce emissions, what our economy can be expected to do to adjust on its own and what deliberate interventions we should make. Instead we have one side yelling that the polar bears are all going to drown if we don’t stop driving cars immediately (they aren’t) while the other side says it’s all a lie, (it isn’t). The world will not end, but there are things we can and should be doing - many of which have significant ansilary benefits. But instead we just yell about whether or not it has ever been hotter.
And this is exactly the discussion I didn’t want to get into on a video game forum.
Just going off of the recent news, with two earthquakes in Mexico plus multiple hurricanes, I’d say it’s a really bad time right now, so versus, say, last year or five years ago? Yeah, I’d say we’re getting it worse these days, but I don’t know nearly enough to theorize beyond what I’ve read (ie water temperatures rising and how that effects hurricane formation).
So yeah, I said that natural disasters and weather extremes are increasing and I believe there’s plenty of data to back that up, but I’m not going to speculate on the science of it because I don’t personally have enough information to do so.
its just the news giving the illusion everything is happening more frequently. natural disasters happen often but alot goes unreported. since its hurricane season, youre gonna hear alot about this stuff goin on. just live life and be happy instead of worrying about everything under the sun
I’d say you can make a case for both sides. It’s true that the higher access of information makes it seems like things are getting worse and worse. However, it is true that they are strengthening and doing more damage. Is it that the damage is due to more modern designs and higher populations? We can’t really say.
Though I voted yes I think it may have to be in a cycle. It’s hard to say when the last frequency of and weathers occurred, but I think almost 10 years ago we’ve had frequent hurricanes occur usually two.
Remember when Ike and Gustav hit Texas? and a few years back we’ve had hurricane Katrina. So, it looks like this seems to happen every 10 years.
Indeed so, Being the dominate species means we have an obligation to take responsibility for our actions. Though we are playing a sall part in the climate change, and not in a very good way either.
In truth they are doing more damage, because there is more to damage. There have always been violent natural disasters. In ancient history these disasters often shaped mythology and ancient stories, whether it be the sinking of Atlantis, the destruction of the Minoan culture, or even Noah’s Ark.
I agree that both right and left have really caused a lot of problems with REAL environmental issues. The fact is, the impact we have on this world, will impact us, but it will not destroy the earth. We could destroy ourselves, but if our planet can survive hundreds of epochs that occurred millions of years before us, it will survive us.
I honestly think taking care of our planet should be common sense. A. It isn’t going to stop bad storms. It isn’t going to stop glaciers from melting. Our planet isn’t going to suddenly turn into a paradise, BUT I’d much rather breath clean air than smog.
Even if we go extinct the planet will move on. It did when the dinosaurs came and gone and even before them, it’s going to do the same. the worse we can do is kill ourselves and other species. Drinking our own poison as they would call it.
We have several ways to do this, clean up the damage we are doing, or let nature sort itself out. even worse we even destroy plants and animals that give benefit to the environment.
-Poaching animals to extinction (like the western black rhino)
-Killing animals that we dislike or afraid of.
-Deforestation which goes hand in hand with habitat destruction.
-polluting our own water supply
weather debate is ugly on both sides, i have my own opinion on it but that isnt for me to share on here seeing as theres other places for that kind of discourse. i will say that people are naieve (sp?) though and put too much trust in things rather than think for themselves, or in some cases…practice what they preach.
i fully agree that no matter what happens, the earth will endure and continue on after we’re gone. its survived far worse things than us, the universe is dangerous and brutal
also, do your part, take care of yourself, and your place. its better for you so you get sick less, have less stress after a day of work, and you help your local environment out too. i seen ppl with junkyards and trash heaps in their front yards along with other kinds of detritus, that is nasty as ■■■■.
anyway, anybody see how michio kaku said the govt experimented altering the weather?
We measure damage in terms of lives lost and dollar amounts. The dollar amounts have skyrocketed while the lives lost have plummeted - despite a huge population increase. So there’s a good case that this is exactly the right direction to be headed. Even something as incredible as the tsunami in Japan. They lost about 30,000 people. But in Indonesia they lost 130,000 in 2004. These numbers are unfathomable. In Japan they actually had an alarm go off telling people to get to higher ground, and then people had places to go - and tall buildings withstood the forces of the water. In Indonesia… they didn’t. But the cost of removing rubble and repairing Japan is astronomically higher. I would argue that’s a trade worth making.
A lot of the increased “cost” of these natural disasters is due to inflation and it’s the sort of “blue tarp” economy. Yes it costs money to clean and rebuild but that money is used to employ people and buy stuff. So it’s not like when the stock market crashes and money/value just disappears into thin air. It can be devastating for individuals who lose property (or family members) and can’t afford to replace it. But as far as the overall economy we don’t see recessions caused by natural disasters. The one exception is flooding that disrupts agriculture. The price of food doesn’t register for most people in developed countries but for the majority of the world where people spend most of their income in food, if the price of rice or corn doubles this causes huge disruptions.
EDIT: it’s also worth mentioning that we know about the tsunami in Indonesia primarily because so many European tourists were there with their video cameras. If it had occurred in 1984 instead the average westerner probably would have barely noticed.