I wasn’t around the scene at the time, and didn’t know until, last year I think, when I found out here. It might even have been yourself who told me.
If there were more people around on the forums still they could confirm. I’ll tag @STORM179 and maybe he can share his recollection of events. Maybe @ItzTymeToDul @Fwufikins @TheNinjaOstrich @FallofSeraphs76 as well.
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For my own part, no need to elaborate further.
As a huge fan of the character, fun video, though he got some of the info wrong around Mortal Kombat X, and also dwelled on the comics too much, which were decanonized long before this video was made.
what I find interesting was that they planned on making Mileena DLC the whole time, they just wanted all the voices to get her in to show if they wanted to.
It’s not so surprising when you think about it.
Apparently a character takes something like five months to make, give or take, and most DLC for a game is generally planned out before the base game even launches.
I’d be more interested to know how COVID and work-from-home conditions affected the overall post-launch support of the game.
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It wasn’t just “the community” that had been toxic - Keits and some members of IG staff had also been antagonizing people on social media, even going so far as to encourage bullying. If I recall correctly, EngDragon made a video about it, possibly Raven Manuel as well(?).
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Yeah, no. Those guys were creating drama for attention. Both got banned from these forums for continually violating the forum rules. So no, they were not “bullied” by the game developers. But their inflated sense of importance related to how much the developers should have taken on board their suggestions and criticisms was a big part of the problem. And part of why we will likely never again see the kind of free and open interactions with fans from a KI developer.
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ENGDragon wasn’t banned, nor was he creating “drama for attention”. Ask him yourself. IG had been encouraging bully behavior and were being jerks. Believe me, I was here on the forums when the incident went down and I remember the incident very well. The moderators had told Keits off when he was picking on some dude.
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This is the second one of these conversations I’ve had with you. ENGDragon never did anything on these forums other than complain about the game. He’s not worth talking to or about. Together with a crowd of attention seeking losers he kept up a steady campaign of harassment directed towards the games developers both here and in other forums. Then when called out on their nonsense - like their ilk always do, they say “hey you’re being mean to me! That’s not right!”
You are here with an account created last October and I still strongly suspect that you are a duplicate account for one of the crazies who got banned. I’m not going to sit here and argue with you about events that I was here for and you “maybe” were. The claim that developers were “bullying” fans on their forum is ridiculous.
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Pft. Please. ENGDragon had been nothing but supportive of the game. He had pointed out issues just as other people rightfully had with Season 2, especially in its handling and quality, and he had every right to point them out. Just because IG was the developer doesn’t mean that every f art they made was somehow imbued with divine radiance. And the lengths you will go to protect IG’s reputation when they had been in the wrong…wow. Wow. As far as I’m concerned, ENGDragon is a good guy who deserves nothing but respect. He hasn’t done anything wrong to merit such contempt. I don’t deny there have been trouble-making individuals such as Vlad or KIG666 in the past, but EngDragon has never been one of those people. To lump him with that lot is insulting, even disrespectful.
So that’s what you do. When confronted with the fact that IG had been less than professional, that they’re far from “perfect”, you jump to their aid no matter what, just to preserve that fantasy of their always being in the right and that I “must” be one of the crazies who got banned. Because God forbid that anyone should point out errors! Please. I was here when that garbage went down. Don’t #hit in my face and tell me it’s raining. For your information, smart guy, I was never banned for anything.
Yes, because developers are always in the right, because they never do anything wrong. Because God forbid that you actually look at all the facts of the situation and not rely on some BS on a documentary that only covered a partial set of facts about what had happened. Such an undertaking would actually require effort on your part, even an acknowledgement of, gasp, the possibility that Keats and co were actually being jerks! Companies like EA would LOVE guys like you - always complacent and docile, unquestioning in your loyalty no matter what evidence of wrongdoing is thrown your way. It’s guys like you that encourage and excuse bad products when you should be worried about the impacts this has on KI as a series, and honestly, you should be ashamed as a fan and as a member of this community, especially for attacking decent unoffending guys like EngDragon.
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Yep. You’re exactly who I thought you were. Good luck in the bizarro land you live in.
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I don’t recall this ENGDragon guy, but a lot of the vocal critics on this forum and social media were pretty sensationalist and slanderous with their complaints. Iron Galaxy actually was addressing and implementing a lot of their feedback anyway (just not as they prescribed), and as they did it became quite clear that these players had no real vision of what they wanted the game to be; just unpleasable nostalgia and hurting egos.
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Funny, the only one living in “bizarro land” is you. If you think I’m Raven Manuel, Vlad, KIG666, his butt buddies, that VXXX guy or whoever the he ll you think I am, if you think that IG were “completely” faultless, these perfect demigods incapable of making mistakes, then you are woefully mistaken. I pity your ignorance.
Some of them. I can’t say as to everyone of them, but there have been a couple individuals that have been.
That’s fine. Not everything has to be prescribed according to the needs of every single person, I get that. BUT, there HAVE been issues with the changes to the gameplay and in terms of the quality of the game during S2 and 3. All you have to do is look at the quality of the animations of TJ, Maya, Riptor etc, (among other things) and compared to DH’s work, there is an awkward stiffness and downward shift in quality. Granted, IG had been improving after Riptor with Hisako, Aganos etc, BUT, by the same token, there is a noticeable lack of consistency.
That’s only partially true to an extent. It didn’t exactly help matters that members of IG’s staff such as Keits were pouring gasoline on a burning fire by encouraging people on Twitter and social media to bully people, especially when some of them had legitimate concerns/issues with changes being made to the game or were encountering problems with the game itself such as game-breaking bugs.
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@Evolution and @BigBadAndy Guys chill out, no need to go making assumptions of people.
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I’m not going to “chill out.” Too many people chill out on the internet and let liars rewrite history.
We had an incredibly toxic group of people running down the game with no purpose behind what they were doing besides personal gratification and a desire to get the game cancelled. They were lobbying MS to fire IG, they were making sure that there could be no positive presence for the game on social media, on streams and in these forums without a pack of yapping dogs hurling in a lot of negative shouting. Most of it was of the “this game is trash, when do we get real KI?” Variety. It wasn’t “constructive feedback” or “some legitimate complaints.” For @Evolution to pretend that it was people sharing their reasonable complaints about things like animation quality and then IG got involved in “bullying them” is blaming the victim.
Imagine someone standing in the town square and there is a mob around them. The mob has pitchforks and torches and is screaming at the top of their lungs. Some of the mob now starts throwing rocks. A few people
in the crowd start to object to the rock throwing, but other people turn to them and yell “you’re just a fanboy!” Now the cops show up and they escort a few rock throwers out of the scene and more people in the mob start yelling “hey you can’t keep them from throwing rocks! That’s not fair! They’re throwing rocks for the good of the town!” And now the guy who has been getting pelted with rocks all night picks up some rocks and starts throwing them back. And now the cops step in, start escorting the rock throwers out of the town square and the guy in the middle covers head and runs out of town, never to be heard from again. A lot of the people standing around with torches and pitchforks are still yelling and complaining that they never got the chance to burn him or jab him with pitchforks. But eventually the crowd gets bored and wanders off.
Flash forward to a few years later and there’s five people sitting around the town square. They start talking about what happened and someone says “yeah, that guy in the middle of the angry mob was throwing rocks. It was a big deal. Most of the people in the mob weren’t even throwing rocks first, some just had pitchforks and we’re only yelling at him. What a disgrace that guy was.” While there may be some elements of the statement that are factual, it is such a horrendous mischaracterization of events that it would be wrong to let that go unchallenged.
That’s what’s happening here. And I’m not going to sit here quietly while someone who thinks that TJ’s animations are “bad for the game” say “IG was bullying people.” Thats BS. It’s such a distortion of reality that it is dishonest. No one, not once ever, “bullied” someone who experienced a game breaking bug. That’s a lie. You had guys like Raven Manuel - cited as a reasonable person complaining by @Evolution - making wild claims and trying to pick a fight with Adam Isgreen, the MS creative director for KI and probably the person most directly responsible for getting the game made. Adam had responded to one of his many absurd complaints by saying essentially “we had to make choices with the game, and these are the choices we made. At the end of the day, people are free to buy it or not, play it or not. Everyone has an opinion amd we will never be able to make them all happy “ So the reasonable, and not at all crazy, Raven Manuel (under the moniker Revenzore something or other) responds in rationale fashion “You shouldn’t be telling your loyal fans who have supported the game that they can buy it or not!” Basically a Karen rant on “you can’t talk to me that way, do you know who I am!?” Except that he’s nobody. He kept calling anyone who didn’t trash the game “marks.” The guy has dozens of YouTube videos that are just rambling nonsense with 10 views about who he’s fighting with at the time. I would link you the video where he puts up his discourse with Adam Isgreen but I don’t want the guy to get any additional views. And ENGDragon was no different. But he’s so far off the radar now that YouTube won’t even let me find any of his videos. These guys didn’t want to improve the game. They wanted to elevate themselves by dragging the developers into protracted drama so they could post videos about it.
So no. I’m not going to let a lying revisionist come in here and say “IG was being mean to fans.” That nonsense. It wasn’t true then, it isn’t true now. It has nothing to do with liking IG, thinking they’re perfect or preventing people from voicing their opinions about the game. The mob was wrong, by definition, for BEING A MOB. Once you’re in a mob, acting like a mob, the nuances of your individual opinion don’t matter. The mob was wrong and they did more damage to the future of KI than any single other factor. So they can own that and no lies or misrepresentations from the secondary account of someone in the mob are going to change that.
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And yet here you are doing just that. I was there when that $hit went down.
I don’t deny there have been some incredibly toxic people on here. KIG666 was definitely one of the nastiest pieces of such examples. ENGDragon had never been one of those people, though, and your willingness to throw decent guys like him under the bus just so you can protect a mediocre developer is offensive to me as a fan and as a member of this community. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
I don’t deny that there have been nasty pieces of work on here, but calling IG “victims”? Please. They were anything but victims. Keits and other members of IG staff were just as culpable in what had happened. They were encouraging bullying, and when S2 was being developed, they were making snide remarks how “if you didn’t like this season you’re not a fan of KI”, which was an absolutely stupid thing to say. At least DH had tried making a pleasant community environment, even if guys like KIG666 had been on it (at least, for a time).
For your information, genius, I didn’t cite Raven Manuel as a “reasonable” person. I had mentioned him off-hand.
Some of them didn’t, but a lot of them did. It didn’t help that Keits and co were antagonizing people on Twitter and were actively encouraging people to bully and troll those that had legitimate issues such as bugs. The level of toxicity in the community was due in no small part to IG’s contribution to S2 onwards.
I said they were of poor quality, and if you actually use your eyes, you can see the difference in IG’s work and DH’s. Granted, there were issues with the latter, but animation-wise, they’re usually consistent and largely of a higher quality. But you don’t care about facts, you just want to pretend that IG are infallible. You are a yes man who will say that anything and everything IG produces is great no matter what.
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What a statement to come back too
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Also. I was there too. And I never saw any of this. So…. who’s the revisionist here?
I haven’t “revised” anything. If you had been there, you would have seen stuff like this. Of course, one has to know where to look, let alone be willing enough to see the ugly details in their entirety.