Someone DM me when The Batman Who Laughs is a standalone charcter in the new Injustice game and Shao Kahn is DLC. Other than that, I’ve already said what I said.
I shouldn’t have to be bored with playing a fighting game that, in my honest opinion, SHOULD KILL THE BOREDOM!!!
I’ll play MK11 when Spawn is out.
This thread has been here for ages and people still have trouble parsing out the difference between “what I like” and what is objectively good. MK 11 has a lot of objectively good characteristics - large roster, good graphics, terrific netcode, lots of single player content. Everyone is free to decide if they prefer the style of gameplay or not. But stop trying to argue people out of liking the game.
As far as EVO, I couldn’t care less what’s there. I didn’t watch any of it last year and I won’t watch this year. I don’t have any problem with EVO choosing the games they want to host - it’s their tournament. I do, however have a BIG problem with the way EVO, it’s organizers and supporters continue to advance this idea that somehow the “worthiest” games and communities “earn” a place at EVO. This is nonsense. It feeds into everything toxic and stupid about the FGC and it is demonstrably, obviously untrue.
EVO and it’s organizers deserve credit for, historically, showing the world that you can host a big venue fighting game tournament and people will support it. But, in my opinion, they have been trading on reputation (“but we’re EVO!”) for the last decade while other events are doing much more to raise the bar and provide service to the FGC.
That’s not what we were doing. I don’t know how you got this.
And as for the rest of your post… take it from me, while sometimes people will be reasonable and understanding when you just drop a negativity bomb, but 9 times out of 10 you’re just gonna start a fight. So work on your wording and stop being so aggressive.
The graphics are indeed good. The roster does have good choices. Even if it does lack some of mine. I was disappointed over my wants not making it in, but I think someone should should be allowed to enjoy something.
I agree 100% and I’m really hoping that this is a problem they’ll hear the fans on and really work to fix. No, I don’t think that the games should be like MKX, where one jump or missed punish leads to a combo that feels like it lasts for hours. But at the same time, players shouldn’t have only a few or worse, just one option for launching the opponent and so few options to extend combos.
I think that putting krushing blows in the game is a great way for players that aren’t quite as combo savvy to get damage on players, but I think they looked at KBs as almost replacing some of the combo potential for characters and that’s not a great way to balance things out. Let players that want to do some fun strings and be creative do that, especially now that you’ve given the less skilled players that aren’t as in to doing combos a weapon to even the score.
Yeah I have this issue too sometimes, but I think if I really watch how many times I press a button and don’t press it too many times, it won’t just throw me right in to the special move that I don’t want. It takes practice though, and it shouldn’t be that tough. It’d be nice if they could work on this so the timing isn’t so loose when it comes to going in to a move you don’t want to do.
It’s kinda strange though, if anything, I thought MKX’s timing windows were far too strict. I think this game might’ve gone ever so slightly too far in the opposite direction, so it’d be great if they could work on that.
Okay, but that’s just learning how to play a game though. You can’t fault the developer for making a game that requires some actual control learning and memorization in a fighting game. It almost sounds like you’re saying the game’s not fun because you can’t button mash your way to big combos. I think they’ve done a lot of things in this game to make it more casual friendly, but in the end, they also want you to be able to execute stuff too.
I will say that there are some combos, especially longer ones, that took me a while to get the timing down, but once I did, it became second nature and required minimal effort on my part. Maybe look up some combo videos and see if there’s some fun stuff you might want to do with certain characters?
Ah I love that they took the supers out of the offensive/defensive bar! I love that they don’t cost three bars of meter that you could’ve otherwise used for amplifying moves. Those being separate to me gives them much more utility. Plus, I think there’s a very fun cat and mouse game when it comes to seeing your opponent’s life bar suddenly reveal that they have fatal blow ready, or that you have yours ready. Trying to find the right time to spend it, trying to bait it out of the opponent… The thrill of landing it, the agony of missing it. All that stuff makes for a fun end to a round or match to me.
As for running, I always hated it. Maybe it’s because the AI in UMK3 was so utterly broken, but it felt like they’d always just run you down and land a big combo on you and if you blocked them, they’d run at you and immediately throw you. You’d try to jump, and they’d immediately jump straight up and kick you.
But that’s my own personal baggage for why I don’t like running, but besides that, I love the more deliberate pacing of MK11. I love that you can get away from an opponent, that both of you can decide how and when you’ll attack, how you’ll react to that, how you’ll react to being knocked down… Just the fact that you actually have options on the ground; stuff that you can do to turn the tables on the opponent or get in the position you want, and they can strategize as well by throwing you out of a roll, baiting a get-up attack, waiting until you get up, etc.
To me, there are a ton of different places in the game where you can try and out think your opponent. It’s not just a matter of who knows the biggest, longest combo, it’s can you anticipate what your opponent will do and out think them? I’ve played against people that can do way flashier stuff than me and I’ve beaten them because I recognize their patterns and how to punish them and they fail to recognize mine. Of course, I’ve also had my ■■■ kicked when the reverse happens lol.
So yeah, I totally get why you don’t like MK11 and I definitely agree that there are certain areas that could be improved upon (as I mentioned above), but I kinda hope they’ll stick to the more strategic approach and not just the blindly run and mash buttons for a 25 hit combo that the opponent has to watch for what feels like an eternity. To me, that’s not fun. But hey, we each derive fun from these games in a different way and that’s okay! Thanks for explaining your perspective. 
Oh dang I had to edit my original post and say YES to all of this! I would love to see them start here. Great thought on the Mediterranean cult and the original cryomancers too! You can absolutely have someone with Johnny’s green shadow attacks and a Sub Zero precursor. And as I’ve said before, it wouldn’t be the worst thing to do to give Johnny, Sonya, Cassie, Jaqui, Jax and the whole Special Forces a game off given how much they’ve starred in the last few games.
As you said, there’s also a nice number of characters available in this time period:
Liu Kang (currently a god)
Kitana (same as Liu)
Raiden (could be given godhood again in new timeline)
Shang Tsung
Goro
Reptile
Shao Khan
Jade
Kintaro
Khameleon
Rain
Motaro
Sheeva
Sindel
Fujin
Quan Chi
Sareena
Shinnok
Reiko
Tanya
Nitara
Moloch
Drahmin
Blaze
Bo Rai Cho
Li Mei
Ashrah
Havik
Hotaru
Dairou
Darrius
Onaga
Taven
Daegon
D’Vorah
Erron Black (if he goes back to his original MKX iteration)
Ferra/Torr
Kotal Khan
Cetrion
Kollector
Kronika
Geras
So yeah, those are ALL of the characters that theoretically could’ve been alive during the Great Kung Lao era. I’m not saying use all of them, of course. Maybe pick the best 20 that fit the story, are significant fan favorites and fan requested characters plus some curve balls. Who knows, maybe characters like Mileena and Skarlet can also appear in the new timeline if they’re created earlier.
Point being, you can still cobble together a fantastic roster with this group, along with The Great Kung Lao himself and several other new characters, some of which can be ancestors of Sub Zero and Scorpion or Johnny Cage or others, while some can, and should, be completely fresh, new ideas.
I think seeing a Mortal Kombat game that takes place a thousand years ago, and the type of characters they could use from that time period as well as how many of these living characters could be depicted could be insanely awesome takes on them.
To me. You didn’t just describe a fighting game. You described a turn based rpg. And I don’t like turn based RPGs.
I won’t give you flak for liking the system the way it is. But I do not share your opinion. I play these kinds of games because I want to beat people up with cool flashy looking moves, because irl I’m very timid and overweight. It’s living out a fantasy. A lot of people play all sorts of video games to do something that they’d love to do irl (or a version of it. I don’t mean I want to murder people irl, but I’d love to box or learn a martial art) but can’t for whatever reason. There’s nothing wrong with that. And there’s nothing wrong with being upset that a series that consistently allowed that suddenly isn’t anymore.
I just wish there was a way to both get what we want from Mortal Kombat. As a Sonic fan I’m weary of when a fanbase splits into multiple pieces because each side wants a completely different thing from the same game. Maybe if they released a spin-off MK series more in line with MK11 called “Mortal Kombat Tactics” or something? Just off the top of my head.
I don’t know exactly how far back this title would be set or what that would mean for the US Military’s existence (I’m terrible at imagining spances of time) but the idea of “revolutionary war Sonya” is extremely funny to me.
Also. Kitana would be alive as a god, yes. But she would also be alive in just… the regular way. Edenians don’t really age the same way humans do and iirc, Kitana was only physically a smidge younger then then she appears to be now. Same with Jade and Sindel.
And I wouldn’t put it past God Liu Kang and Goddess Kitana to crest “normal” versions of themselves to exist in the new timeline. But that’s besides the point as normal Liu Kang wouldn’t be alive yet.
This pretty much covers my thoughts on like the last week of comments on this thread. I keep seeing haranguing about what are pretty obviously intentional design choices, some of which have been addressed as the game has gone on (additional variations/chars that are more combo focused) and some of which have not and are unlikely to be (general game focus on spacing and intentionality on what and when you press). The game is the game - if you don’t like it that’s fine, but plenty of other people do and I just honestly don’t see the point of complaining about it here. 
MK11 has an option for how long you want the buffer window to be right there in its options at character select. You should make use of it if you find the timing on things not to your liking.
A valid desire perhaps, but it’s not the game that NRS made here. The dial-a-combo system has had greater and lesser “freedom” over the years, but it has always had fundamental limitations on what connects where and how. That’s how string based fighters work, and if you want to do impressive combos in MK11 you can’t just stubbornly say “I want to freestyle!” and not bother trying to learn the strings. The game has impressive combos - the only question is if you care to put in the work to do them.
And I’m going to pull this out because I think it’s just wrong. Fighting games are indeed fundamentally about the interplay and back and forth between two opponents, and you not liking that does not suddenly make the game a “turn based rpg”. We’ve established many times that what you like in FG’s isn’t what many of us like, but for whatever reason this mischaracterization here really bugs me. You want to go nuts on a horde of AI opponents and that’s fine, but a game not catering to that sufficiently doesn’t mean it’s now in an entirely different genre. There’s tons of fantastic power fantasy action games floating around where you can obliterate hordes of enemies - a fighting game has no obligation to provide that same kind of experience through its gameplay systems.
So the fact that almost every other fighter I play does do that is just sheer coincidence? I don’t see why it can’t cater to people like me (for all intents and purposes, casuals) AND give you guys a super complicated system to learn and compete with. Most fighting games do that because their systems allow for that free styling. And while I’m free styling I find out that this special comes from this specific button sequence, and I start doing it on purpose later. Which is a more fun way to learn, to me at least, then plonking down in training mode and going down the in-game movelist. The changes they made to the formula feel like they were explicitly made to cater to “hardcore” and more technical fans of the series at the expense of the casual fans who don’t really care about that. Who just want to fight their friends at parties and the computer. Who don’t want to dominate online or compete in tournaments. Which, the way I see it, is a bad move for the fighting game with the largest mass market appeal (state-side, anyway) behind Super friggin Smash Bros.
The point is that we were having a conversation. Iago and I were actually being very friendly about the discussion, talking about what we do and don’t prefer and why. But then all of a sudden we start getting responses like this and Andy’s who make us out to be winy brats who didn’t get what we wanted which is just insulting because it feels like all that was seen in my post was “me no like 11” and everything else about the entire conversation was basically ignored. The fact that the parts that were pulled out of my post are when I commented on the tactical element of the fighter not being what I prefer, and not the hundreds of other points that were more constructive or the dozens of times I said “agree to disagree”, speaks volumes. And I will say this again here, it’s something of a montra I adopted over on Smashboards because I’m not a Fire Emblem fan. “When people don’t like what they’re given, they are going to wish they had gotten something else. And they’re going to want to talk about what that could have been. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s only human.”
Just as a general note, I’m not actually much enamored with complexity. I can appreciate the presence of depth, and think that a game should allow enough creativity that players can be differentiated even without a nametag over them, but beyond that I don’t need a game to be especially technical or combo-heavy. I don’t tend to go to Practice Mode unless I need to, and there’s a reason I play relatively straightforward characters like Hisako and Seong Mina. So long as there is good opportunity for interplay and decision-making, I think simplicity can be plenty fun. So that’s my bias.
As to how all other fighters allow you wing it, I guess I just kind of don’t agree with that. SFV, BBTag, Samurai Showdown, Tekken 7…plenty of modern FG’s (which to be fair, may not be the ones you play) have pretty solid limitations on what you can string together without digging more into their actual systems to understand how extensions work. T7 will let you mash just about any combination of buttons and get some kind of string, but you’ll hit the wall of stuff actually working very quickly. It’s a string-based game, and like most string-based games options are indeed gated off behind certain strings. The only really “free-form” string-based game that I can think of is DOA, and that’s more because of the dynamics of stage interactions than the combos themselves.
MK11 is perhaps more restrictive in this regard than some other titles, but to me that difference seems more of a difference in degree than in kind. The title has plenty of impressive combos in it, but it doesn’t bother with the illusion of a billion strings that have no real purpose. Some characters are genuinely gimped in the variety of combo stuff they can do (Kotal is a good example), but the cast has lots of characters and plenty of them do not run into that issue. Not every character needs to be a combo monster - I think it’s cool when there are genuine differences of that type within a roster.
I never said you or Iago or anyone were being combative or rude about your points. You were both being very civil in your conversation.
But it’s also true that there’s a bunch of criticisms and complaints and “I wishes” thrown about in the past week, from someone complaining about how “boring” the game is to you not liking the ending (which I thought perfectly closed out the new trilogy) to Iago disliking the variation system. And x and y and z and so on. Some or all of these complaints can be valid, but yes, it gets tiresome reading through it all.
I’m human too, and like most humans I’m subject to the negativity heuristic. Bad experiences tend to resonate more strongly than positive ones, so a lot of times those are the pieces of the conversations that stick. I keep track of threads here even when I don’t comment, and frankly I’ve been absent from this one because I disagree very strongly with a lot of the commentary that’s been happening, but hey, y’all were having a civil conversation and were into it, so I figured I’d shut up and keep my negativity to myself. But ■■■■■ it, I’ve got limits too, and at a certain level I’m kind of tired of everyone talking about what MK11 doesn’t have.
Either you like it or you don’t. The game is what it is - accept it or move on. Talking about what you hate about MK on the KI forum isn’t going to change anything, and that kind of stuff rubs me precisely the wrong way because of how shabbily the KI devs were treated over design decisions that they made.
-End rant-
And if it needs to be said, the above is simply my perspective as a user here on the forums, one who generally rather likes the direction of MK11 and the ways in which NRS was willing to innovate and evolve on their standard formula. You and Iago and everyone else are free to disagree with me, and are also free to continue the conversation in the vein you’ve been going down. This isn’t a mod action (or “suggestion”) of any kind.
Going to leave this one here.
Nah it’s not a turn-based RPG and I didn’t mean to describe it that way. I just meant that there’s strategy involved in fighting. You prefer the “run at the opponent and dish out a huge combo with flashy moves” approach while I like some of that, I think MKX went too far over the top in that regard where it felt like someone could just sit in the corner and juggle me for an hour while I got up and made a snack lol.
But yeah, we differ in how we prefer the speed / style of MK. No big deal.
I get what you’re saying, but my guess is that they’ll move MK12 a little further in your direction. If MKX was too fast for some, MK11 might’ve been too slow for others. Maybe there’s just more of a sweet spot where more people will be happy and they just haven’t quite hit it yet? Who knows. They can’t please everyone and I’m sure for some, MK11 is too fast or MKX is too slow lol.
Ya know, you’re 100% right and I completely forgot that was a thing until you mentioned it. Thank you! Much appreciated. Nothing like asking for something that’s already there lol.
Honestly, any game can allow you to mash to some extent, but most fighters do have extra layers after that level for intermediate and high level players. I think that there are some characters in MK11 that meet that requirement. Kabal and Liu Kang immediately jump to mind. If you’ve played Kabal in an MK game before, you likely know what you need to in order to get some basic combos, special moves, etc. It’s also pretty easy to pull of some cool looking stuff with Liu.
But it seems like kind of an odd approach to say “I want to have fun with this game while not actually learning how to play it. I want to figure it out for myself instead of having to put any work in.” I mean, you can absolutely approach games that way and still have fun, but the fighting genre tends to be a bit less forgiving of that approach. Killer Instinct and Dead or Alive are probably the most forgiving in that regard. I dunno, maybe you thought MKX was along those lines. I’d say it was easier to connect stuff and free style, but not by much.
Nah, I think you’re assuming that “casual” level players are all on the level that you prefer to play fighting games and I’m not so sure about that. Sure, I had some buddies over two weekends ago and we played some MK11 and they button mashed, found some combos and I’d tell them some special moves, but these guys aren’t buying the game. I mean, I consider myself a casual player. I play somewhat regularly, but I also look up combos on YouTube and look through the movelist. I think most players at least do the latter.
So I don’t know if the whole “tilting the game to the hardcore audience” argument really works that well given that I think most casuals at least look at the move list and experiment a little. It sounds like you’re just going in to the game, mashing, not seeing the results you want and then blaming the devs for making the game too hard. If I’m way off base there, then my apologies. I just consider myself to be someone of middling skill level at best and I’m not feeling the restrictions you’re talking about because I go in and figure out what the characters can do.
Yeah and I definitely want to keep it friendly too. I’m sorry if my comment above came off snippy or anything like that. Wasn’t my intention at all.
Yeah I think that’s kinda the difficult part for some people in MK11. In MKX, seemingly every character had big, long combo strings and juggles for days. But in MK11, there are characters like Skarlet who (outside of the corner) basically has one combo that has 9+ hits in it. For people looking forward to getting their hands on this character again, especially if they use something like MKX as their basis for how and MK game plays, that HAS to be disappointing regardless of NRS’ intentions. She’s a zoner! Sure, okay. But in a game with teleports and specials that help characters either eat projectiles, deflect them or bypass them in some way, well… Maybe she could benefit from some more combo options?
I actually spent a lot of time playing MK11 this past weekend and primarily with Geras, whom I’d never really used much and I must say, he’s a lot of fun! I’ve never really been that in to grapplers in MK games, namingly becuase NRS / Midway always had a way of making combo throws way more difficult than they needed to be and the rewards were always limited. But with Geras… Man… SO many krushing blows, such a good cross up game, so many throws (for an MK character).
So yeah, I think NRS can create characters that don’t need to do 25 hit combos to deal solid damage. The problem that I’m personally having is that there’s still some balancing that needs to be done in terms of combo options for some characters… Just more variety, more stuff to do, more fun factor, etc. There’s a lot of great stuff there, but take Jade for example… She has some fun combos, some fun stuff she can do, and can zone just as well, if not better than Skarlet. Cetrion’s even better.
So yeah, I think some characters could still use some tweaking, without a doubt, but if that’s the worst criticism that I can lay at NRS’ doorstep? That seems like a pretty awesome game to me.
Yeah, I hear ya. As much as a forum is a great place to voice our opinions, the downside for some can be hearing several opinions that they don’t agree with, or several opinions that are rather negative and kinda bring you down. If you enjoy a game and you go in to a forum to talk about it and everyone’s just talking about what they don’t like, even if it’s civil, it can still be a bit of a letdown. Of course, the opposite is true as well. If you have some issues with a game and everyone’s only praising it or whatever. Not an exact opposite, but you get my point.
Either way, I didn’t mean to sound like I was hating on the game with my critique of the variation system. If I came off too negatively, then that’s my bad.
Oh absolutely. That’s something that will forever be stuck in my craw (the KI aspect). For whatever it’s worth, as I’ve said before, I do love MK11. It’s my favorite MK game since MK2, and I don’t say that lightly. This is my all time favorite game series, so the fact that they put out something that I enjoy this much is amazing. That said, of course there’s still stuff I’d like to see them change or improve upon. My apologies if me voicing opinions on those things leads you to believe that I’m somehow down on the game as a whole.
I’m also not one of those people that talk to the devs and trash the game to them. I’d never be that person and I honestly hate that those people exist. Do I ask them for things? Absolutely. I try not to be obnoxious about it, but if there’s some feedback that I can give in a positive way that (hopefully) doesn’t come off as toxic or whatever, then yeah, why not offer some feedback? But I know that’s not what your’e referring to, at least that’s my assumption.
I think when I talk about stuff that I’d like to see in this game, it’s from the perspective of someone that loves it and would love to see x, y, z done to make it even better, but I don’t intend that as negative. I’d also say that in talking about the variation system, I was more thinking about MK12 and how they could do something different.
I think MK11 has done a good job of evolving MKX’s system, but since they tend to do something different each game, I wouldn’t mind seeing them go in another direction. I think there are some natural restrictions on the variation system that could be alleviated in the future, but if I came down too harshly on it before, then that might’ve been a heat of the moment, thinking of one thing in particular, frustration type of deal. I dunno.
I’ll respond with a metaphor. I was taught how to swim by getting in the water and fighting it out for myself. I still struggle with doing certain strokes a pro would use, but I can get around under water and have a lot of fun. And if there was a “no holds barred” swimming contest and I was allowed to use my techniques, I would probably do just as well as as your average human doing the strokes they were taught by instructors. You wouldn’t say I haven’t learned how to swim though, just because I’m not doing a breast stroke or whatever. And hey, maybe we got to some of the same tricks despite our different methods of learning. That’s how I want to learn to play a fighting game. I want to figure out what works and what doesn’t on my own. And I don’t feel like MK11 allows me to do that in a way that other fighting games do.
Fair enough, but from where I’m sitting, your metaphor doesn’t work quite as well because with MK11, you’re blaming the game because “getting in the water and fighting it out” didn’t work as well as you’d prefer. I’m not sure how long you’ve been playing fighting games or which ones you play, so I don’t have much of a basis for how often you’ve used this method and the success you’ve had with it, but from my personal experience with fighting games, I can swim around and have fun in any fighting game, but if I want to understand the systems / various strokes and I want to dive deeper and improve, I’m more inclined to get an instructor even though I’m still just a casual swimmer.
I’m not saying that the way you enjoy games is wrong by ANY means. I’m just saying MK11 has some great stuff in it and you don’t seem to be willing to see it because you have your method for playing and that’s that. The unfortunate part is that this method you use leads you to an opinion on the game that I don’t think is necessarily fair or accurate in terms of what I know the game to be. If I can use a simile, it’s like having a book club where half the people read the book and the other half skipped around through the cliff’s notes and read a few lines they thought were interesting, but ultimately came away thinking the book was a snooze.
You’ve arrived at the opinion that the game is “clunky” because you can’t hop in and mash out combos. While I do think that there could be more options and variety, I think there’s still a lot there that’s fun if you’re willing to look stuff up and learn / practice a bit. If not, then, well… Your loss, I suppose?
We can continue this in DM if you prefer. It seems as though our conversation isn’t the most well received, which is fine. Valid points all around on that.
yeah I saw that. While I do disagree with some of his points he does have a point about some of the animation. Like how we down need to have stiff movements.
We also don’t need Stance switching. That’s a useless feature.
Does it really matter though? Like, it’s not needed, sure, but it doesn’t hinder the gameplay experience. It’s not like the Werehog.
It does. There’s no real use for it. No one is changing my mind on it.