LCD Opens Up About Everything (Survey Feedback)

Some of you may know that I’ve been on a sort of hiatus lately from Killer Instinct and the community and I’ve been holding out my thoughts on everything for a while waiting for the right time to share what’s been on my mind. With this survey coming out of nowhere I think now is that time.

Prefacing this post I want to make things extremely clear for the developers and others that may read this post going in that some of things I mention may sound harsh but are said with all the best intentions; myself being one of the original and biggest supporters of this game since day one, I want nothing but good things for this game and its community but alas I am only one person and don’t speak for anyone but myself. The developers including Keits are constantly telling people to come to the forums and post their feedback, so that is what I’m doing. This post talks about pretty much everything so grab some popcorn, sit back, relax and enjoy the read.


THE COMMUNITY

While this first topic doesn’t necessarily correlate with the survey I do feel like it’s something I must discuss and give my thoughts on as it has personally affected me greatly.

Everyone is aware I’m sure of the drastic change in direction the community has taken recently, ultimately resulting in one of the game developers going into hiding per say. Being someone who belonged to the community before the game even launched I have to say that I would agree about this community somewhat going downhill or even becoming toxic. This community use to be one the nicest communities around always helping others learn the game, sharing strategies and so on; however now I feel it has become a game of thrones. Players now always constantly putting each other down, never showing respect for various skill levels, having an opinion on every little thing. Watching the 8Bitbeatdown chats turn into a whos top 5 and your character is OP and my character sucks every week got very tiring and we even saw the event organizer 8bitZombie show his disgust a while back for this. The man gave his heart and soul each and every week for you guys to put on a great show and players can’t even show the respect back by sitting back and enjoying the show. Not everyone is like this but you know that saying that it only takes 1 person to ruin it for everybody.

Like I mentioned up above in the preface, this is one of the big reasons I have taken a step back from the game lately because I use to stream this game each and every day and that as you know is putting myself out there on the internet. People constantly coming into my stream chats, other players stream chats and even tournament stream chats always talking about me behind my back, saying I suck etc instead of just letting me be myself. While I understand it’s the internet and haters will always be a thing and I should just ignore them, some of these negative comments also come from other notable players within the community who set a bad example for others and make me look bad for no reason. That really takes a toll on a person especially when it happens on a daily basis. I will return soon…very soon actually. I would never abandon you guys but sometimes breaks are needed.

SEASON 3

Overall I would say that Season 3 would have to be my least favorite version of the game to date. Iron Galaxy worked very hard to deliver a semi bug free and polished game at the end of season 2 which is where I believe the game was at its best. Needless to say it still wasn’t without its flaws (cough Kan-Ra cough) however it was the most balanced version of the game which is what I believe the community cares most about which is that the game is fun but no one or two characters feel they are not fun and can’t win. Season3 came along and added so many fancy new system mechanics which I don’t think the game needed at all. They could of literally just made Combo Breakers cause a flip out and gotten rid of Instinct canceling off CBs and the game would of been perfect.

This season of KI launched with an enormous amount of bugs some of which are still in the game while older reported ones still have not been fixed…like this one for example

Things like this are unacceptable to me because it doesn’t allow me to play my character at their full potential, instead I’m constantly having to strategically play around these bugs some of which have cost me in previous offline tournaments.

GAME BALANCE & CHARACTER DESIGN

One of the biggest turnoffs of season 3 for me personally is the inconsistent design direction. The developers will say something is intended one minute and then say it wasn’t the next. A prime example being Maya’s shadow leap kick how they always wanted dagger toss after Shadow Leap kick but now they don’t. Another being how they made Orchid’s air throw breakable just because they added Gargos into the game. Why did you take away such and such move away from this character but give the exact same move to so and so character? Why did you normalize everyone else’ damage but leave this characters damage alone when he has some of the most and best tools in the game?


(Just one example but there are many others)

Iron Galaxy always does a great job coming up with innovative ways to add life into characters and make them seem cool especially with guest characters some of which aren’t traditionally fighting game characters; however as a result in my opinion this has left the game not feeling very cohesive. The season 3 cast of characters and even some ones from Season 2 feel like they are from completely different games. When I’m Kim Wu playing against and Arbiter or Aria I feel like we are both playing different games and aren’t playing the same one, hes just doing his own thing and I’m just doing my own thing completely ignoring the matchup.

Isn’t Killer Instinct suppose to be about combos? Why are there so many 1-chance break vortex characters now even some that do more damage long term than the characters who don’t have those tools? This was the biggest complaint about Season1 which was the 1-chance into shadow ender and now the game is back to that just in another form.

Kim Wu is probably the most fun character I have ever played in Killer Instinct but at the same time I also think she is the most poorly designed character; her only saving grace being her big damage. Why does a grounded footsies heavy character who relies on controlling space have to give up all her space and put herself into the corner every time she wants to whiff punish with Dragon Kick or do damage ender; that’s like asking Zangief to land full screen after every SPD. No matter what people think otherwise I AM NOT asking for them to remove a character weaknesses, I simply want them to make sense. Kim Wu has some of the worst matchups in the game and very few winning ones. Why is there any incentive to play her over the better characters in the game? To my knowledge she is one the least played characters, I never see her on Twitch streams, or in online/offline tournaments…why is that? I bring this up not get my character buffed but I use her as an example because IG has said their main focus is to make sure characters and the game are first and foremost fun, but I feel this hurts game balance greatly. No player wants to feel like their character sucks, they simply want to go online and play some matches without feeling like they need to blow their brains out and throw their Xbox/PC out the window.

CONTENT

Many a time have I made my position on the lack of content in Killer Instinct very clear; in short I am very unhappy. Season 3 feels like the casual season in terms of content meaning they are just adding things to keep the casual player which is fine, a lot of casual players are there and will enjoy this content but don’t neglect the other side. A player such as myself has no interest in using Shadows, or has any intention of going through Shadow Lords. Giving competitive players a better training mode (which is still good, has become outdated and needs additional options) also an Online Training Mode or a revamped Dojo which Adam Isgreen assured to me was going to be re-done in the interview I did with him back in January but was not. Making sure your players have the tools to learn and compete in the game in the best ways should be of the highest priorities. The core gameplay is what should matter most.

One of the most shocking and disappointing lacks of content I’ve been very vocal about is costumes. I use the word shocking because you would think that Microsoft and IG would want to capitalize on the potential earnings they would make selling costumes as DLC. People in this day and age go crazy for costumes especially in free to play games where selling cosmetics is the only way the company/game makes money; we see how popular these things can be in other fighting games like MKX and SFV. Quite honestly I actually just got done buying all of Ibuki’s costumes in the shop. People keep complaining about the lack of stages being added into the game which is obviously due to lack of budget, profits from selling costumes could compensate for that. What about the tournament implications as well? Making a special holiday costume or exclusive DLC skin whos profits all go towards pot bonuses for tournaments? The possibilities are endless. And while we’re on the subject…for the love of god please fix the retros!!! Orchid’s retro looks like it’s from and 8bit Sega game and it’s embarrassing.

GUEST CHARACTERS

I have always been a supporter of adding guest characters into the game but all the ones they have added so far are less than appealing to me; of course this just being my opinion I’m sure there are many players out there that do enjoy them. With that being said though I feel as though the guest characters kind of outshines the original and returning cast of characters. I wish the same kind of love and care that was put into Arbiter’s design had been put into Kim Wu’s. A character that has magical dragons can’t do a dragon punch? Kappa

In all seriousness though I’ve always said this is that the purposes of guest characters is to help grow the game and build an audience and I don’t think RAAM or Rash is going to do that. RAAM is possibly the worst possible choice they could of landed on when determining a guest character. You aren’t going to grow the game by bringing in a Halo or Gears player who will play the game for 15 minutes and go back to play Halo or Gears. Your best luck is to bring in already established fighting game players from within the FGC in other games. Hence why I have suggested bringing in Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. Putting aside all bias on whether you like the character or not, he is still one of the most popular and iconic characters of all time and to think he wouldn’t bring over a few NRS players to try out the game is foolish. The pipe has already been laid in terms of relationships so making that happen is not far from reality. With all my bias in mind though Joanna Dark is also a good choice :slight_smile:

CONCLUSION

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. I always try and refrain to posting my thoughts on the forums because people always end up reprimanding me for them in the worst ways possible. Don’t ask your players to come and give you feedback if you’re just going to spit it back in their face. Read it and move on.

Like I said I want Killer Instinct to be the best it can possible be and if saying what I truly feel is what it takes to get it to that point then so be it. I love this game to death and love the FGC in general. While I won’t be at EVO this year I want to truly wish everyone luck who will be competing this year as I’ll be watching with great interest.

Quick thank you to all of the developers at MS and IG and even DH for making the game and being so innate with the community as you are. We are lucky to have such developers who care so deeply for the game and its community as they do and I think we sometimes take that for granted. Good luck getting a Capcom or NRS developer to message you on Twitter about frame data or feedback suggestion.

The game will continue to grow no matter what and I will continue to support the game. I say these things because I care. If I didn’t care I’d keep my mouth shut and not play the game nor would I spend my time writing these forum posts. There needs to be a fine line between crapping on the game and actually providing feedback. If everyone just sits in a circle holding hands singing Kumbaya, then the devs will think their game is perfect and nothing will ever change.

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I’m glad you opened up your opinions without being a jerk. I respect that.

However, I feel like a view of the big picture is in order here. Even if character balance may seem inconsistent at points, decisions change and data is studied. Recent patch notes have had explanations under every change saying why is made, which I think makes for this to some degree. If something is too good, then why would you refuse to change it just because you buffed it before? As far as giving the same treatment to all instead of a few, game balance is game balance, pure and simple. They make decisions based on what they see, and they see a lot. I still say that every character this season is viable, just that some take more work than others. The in-cohesiveness of the characters is a consequence of trying to make every character unique. It doesn’t bother me personally, but if you’re bothered by it that’s fine.

I do feel sympathetic towards your viewpoint of the community. I ranted for an hour on youtube about that. But sometimes people aren’t trying to hurt your feelings and rather are just trolling. If that bothers you (like me), then open up and say you don’t like and some people will listen. I promise.

Also, I think you’re underestimating the casual crowd. Most people don’t go online with fighting games and would rather play offline with friends or by themselves. The casual content is for those interested. In the same way that shadow lords means nothing to competitive players, online training mode means nothing to casuals. Killer Instinct has been ridiculed many times in the past because of its lack of single player content, so they are being smart and remedying that. Also, guest characters DO get people interested in the game, even if the characters themselves aren’t from fighting games. I saw some non-KI people in chat getting excited about seeing Arbiter in tournaments.

Again, I respect your opinion I can kind of agree with the costumes critique, but everything else you said is different in my viewpoint.

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THANK YOU! I want this character to.

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I think the game balance is in question. However the team is ambitious with the season 3 characters. I like the differing play styles.

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You bring up many good points, many that I agree with, but I’m gonna have to disagree with you on this:

This definitely is not true. I watched numerous people from the halo community try out arbiter and become regular KI players that I run into online. With RAAM I was able to get 4 friends that said they would never touch KI to give it a try and now join me for matches every so often.

Guest characters, regardless of where they come from can influence potential players to try the game. Hell, if it wasn’t for Link showing up in Soul Calibur 2, who knows when/if I would have ever started playing fighting games.

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TJ Combo was also butchered to the point where he feels hopeless when being pressured. He’s also no longer fun. As a result I was indirectly forced to retire him. Color 9 is a joke!
My opinions.
It’s also sad when you tweet the dev team members and other KI players regarding switching out 1 of 2 pad players for a stick player in local play Character Select screen , without having to go back to main menu to Change Profile first… I received no response on multiple tweets. @CrazyLCD was the only one who responded. Yet I continued to see tweets going out by those who didn’t respond. This community isn’t what it use to be. I agree 100%

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I definitely think ur underestimating the casual crowd in fighting games and how important casual modes are (it’s why SFV is getting flak about it). Way more people play fighting games casually then compared to people who go to tournaments or try to be “high level”. Rash as annoying as I think he is to fight he was the best guest character that they introduced to KI and gave the game a lot of press, Raam was a weird choice, I love his playstyle but that was such a weird guest character to add in this game. The Dojo I been complaining about so much to get updated, I’ve tweeted the MS and IG team, put it in the survey feedback as well as put posts about but I never get an answer which sucks because new people who are trying to learn the game are learning season 1 stuff that isn’t true to season 3 anymore :[ (this is easily my biggest disappointment of season 3). Online training mode would be so helpful and some things they give/ take away from characters is questionable. I find it odd now that a lot of people are saying season 2 was the best season when people used to say it was the worst or wasn’t balanced at all. Asking to make low tier characters not low tier anymore is a weird thing to say as (at least to my FG knowledge) have always existed but her bugs and her SC need to get fixed. Most of ur points I agree with tho and I hope they take ur post and the survey to heart since IG so far have been pretty cool people.

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Oh hey, it’s already that time of year? You know, that time of year where the same small group of pro players come out to say that the previous season was so much better than the current one.

Every year, I tell myself that I’m going to get my doomsday gift shopping done ahead of time, but you know how that goes…

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EXACTLY

Seriously, S3 isn’t even finished yet, so why are we complaining about balance?[quote=“N1ghtSlash, post:7, topic:11921”]
because new people who are trying to learn the game are learning season 1 stuff that isn’t true to season 3 anymore
[/quote]I really wish I could get behind this point, but…

Well, most people I talk to avoid the tutorial like the plaque. So is it really worth their time? This is a serious question.

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Yes it is. It’s frustrating when someone asks me for a set and me having to tell them u can go through armor with heavies and they never had a clue about it. Watching week 1 season 3 streams and at the end of season 2 streams (when they had the game for sale) and having to tell someone that doesn’t work anymore like juggles being Unbreakable is so annoying. I still want them to update it but I wish they would have done this in the beginning.

Ouch. The truth of this statement actually made me feel pain.

[quote=“N1ghtSlash, post:10, topic:11921”]
having to tell someone that doesn’t work anymore like juggles being Unbreakable is so annoying
[/quote]Does the tutorial explicitly say that juggles are unbreakable?

TJ combo does feel pretty hopeless when pressured. But, he’s pretty damn HOPEFUL when he’s doing the pressuring. I main him. Love the character. Would I complain if he was given a dp on wakeup? Hell no. But, he’s still my favorite character to play with in any fighter I’ve played since 1991.

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I think the biggest issue with the game is the community.

I remember when I first started hanging around ki streams you could say your greetings and everyone would return them and interact with you.

Season 3 came around and it’s basically a fall out game now in terms of interaction.

You barely find people who are willing to talk to you, playing online is filled with people who t bag and talk ■■■■. Barely finding people who want to be your ally. It’s just a massive ■■■■ fest. I feel lonely in the community now, I use to play in lobbies everyday with people from various streams to playing alone.

There is also the stigma of character/ultra shaming now, before it use to be a joke. But now people will think less of you as a person if you play a certain character or do a ultra.

“O you play shago? ■■■■ off”

“Wow you’re the worst ■■■■■■■ human being in existence for doing an ultra”

People want ki to be a big esport fighting game me and included, but with the attitudeslately I don’t think that is gonna happen.

People are gonna see this community and go “this game isn’t esport and it’s already tearing each other apart? This game isn’t worth it.”

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Some things I agree with and most i do not…but to state that you wont play Shadow lab or Shadow Lords as if that matters is funny. Its not all about "Pro players!"
This isn’t your game… Its everyone’s game and we all have a stake in this. Being a Pro player and having a tournament with a few dollars as a prize doesnt matter… this isnt professional sports. You should be happy that there is even an opportunity to have a tournament. Im sorry but if your main source of income is to play KI… well you are in for a big disappointment in life and paying your bills.
If there were 100,000 on the line on every tournament…yeah that’s a big deal and the game would be designed just for Pros… but its not… its for casuals and there happens to be some tournaments that have 5, 10, 20 Gs every now and then.

This game will never be absolutely perfect as if its the NFL or an Olympic sport… its a game and its supposed to be fun…Have fun and enjoy playing the game before its gone!

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Yeah lol go to 13:24 in this vid. It’s what u went for as a Jago player to get decent damage https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=keCo1J4x910 .

Damn it you’re right.

One more thing…didnt Rukari say 7 million matches played or something like that at E3?

That isnt 7 million PROs…its 6,999,925 casuals and 75 Pros. And thats being generous on the Pros numbers.

75 or more Pros isnt what Shadow Lab and Shadow Lords is about… its about the 7 million matches fought by the 4 million causal or whatever the number is. That’s what this game is about and who its for… never get it confused that this game or ANY game is design for PROs only.

Im sure my numbers are way off but generally speaking you should get my point… I love watching tournaments and so called Pros play… only a handful of them are generally Pros with sponsors… but at the end of that day its all of us playing at home that keep the game alive.

Enough of this… Im going to go play some CASUAL games and game modes.

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I never said casual content wasn’t important, I merely talked about what a player like myself is interested in; again this post was from my perspective not anyone else’. Of Course there will be tons of players who still play the single player modes.

Man. It’s like ever since Season 3 started, everything slowly declined. It’s like pulling the wool from over your eyes and BANG, the grim reality.

I know Season 3 wasn’t like Season 2 but seeing this made me realize something. Season 3 didn’t suck outright (oh hell no), it was great until ish happened (stage issues, pc issues, leaks, guests issue, all the way into the community issue).

:disappointed: What went wrong?

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They changed the plan on us a bit, and people overreacted.[quote=“iHeartSkulls, post:19, topic:11921”]
It’s like ever since Season 3 started, everything slowly declined.
[/quote]

Except the player base, tournament viewers, etc…

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