Killer Instinct 4

Looks better than the current one.

Yeah, but it’s honestly hard to say if a lot of that was from straight-up design choice or if it was more due to hardware limitations.
And darker & more haunting music? Have you recently sat down & compared the older themes to their newer ones? I really think that is a matter of nostalgia headphones (I would say goggles, but we’re talking about audio here.
I mean take Spinal’s theme for example…his original theme was essentially the skeleton army theme from Jason and the Argonauts with a xylophone added for “bone” effects.
His new theme includes a low chanting choir, a flute made from a human femur bone, heavy drums, and a lot of a kinda of moaning, creaking flow to the music…how is that “not as dark”??
Glacius had more of an upbeat techno-pop feel where now it’s more of a big budget sci-fi alien invasion movie theme going on.
And then there are the ones in the cast where the themes are the same frikin tunes they had in the originals, just…you know…good.

No the original themes were not darker. They were simplier tunes, less fleshed out, but certainly not darker in tone…unless you consider 90’s techno/dance dark.

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@Fwufikins So why were staggers added?

@TheKeits said during the Tusk reveal that they created staggers as a mechanic specifically for him, and evnetually then they sprinkled them through the cast because it turned out to be really cool.
"You can’t cancel these normals. So the best way to do it is to confirm off of the stagger with a normal."

They tested the mechanic out with Shadow Jago (almost a year ago now), so they’ve had lots of time to perfect it, and the player base has had almsot as much time to learn how to deal with it…

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The point people are making is that it seems you don’t like the things that give this game its identity.

If you combo break with the right strength at the right time on a breakable move, combo breakers always work, barring weird edge cases like glacius shadow hail that I’ve never seen anyone actually take advantage of in a match.

The mechanic was made specifically for tusk. I imagine they spread it around the cast to give characters additional hit confirming options and expand combo options–e.g. TJ can now easily confirm into shoot toss from his TJ combinations, raam can combo locust kick into heavy command grab for high guaranteed damage and good oki. A good handful of characters have staggers that expand their confirm options from neutral, e.g. kan-ra’s 5HK confirms into scorpion tail from max range and command grab from slightly closer.

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Staggers and flip-outs? KI was better without them in my opinion.

Not sure what you mean…

The fact that you don’t know makes it especially weird that you’re saying breakers “don’t always work,” because that’s the only case I can think of where that’s actually true.

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You mean when someone tries to break shadow hail?

Glacius has the same bug sadira had last patch, where a projectile shadow opener causes the combo system to behave strangely. Essentially, shadow hail as an opener doesn’t count as an opener. Whatever you manual after will be unbreakable and not cash out, and with infinite meter you can do as many shadow hails as you want and that’ll still be true. This is an edge case, that in practical terms won’t matter often in a match due to the difficulty of comboing into the full hits of shadow hail.

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You messing up and getting locked out =/= combo breakers don’t always work.

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Yeah, I dunno, bud. Most of what you’re suggesting sounds to me like MK:PG, which is pretty far from what I would want out of a fighting game. Sorry for the bad formatting (on mobile).

I’ve never played a fighter for finishing moves, and it’s been my experience that no amount of finishers make up for bad game design. Honestly though, at this point, I don’t see a great argument AGAINST Ults or whatever, so long as they are mechanically identical to the in-game precedent. Supers make games lame in the period of time a match should be hypest.

Your point about the combo system and staggers doesn’t sound like it jives with an interesting array of post-neutral states and strategic possibility. As to the flipout thing, how do you break light wrong? Does anyone other than Kan-Ra have non-light flipouts?

After reading the part about the “overall tone”… and Cyber Jago… who is a monk, not a ninja (I didn’t write it, that’s canon)… but Cyber Jagos gameplay more or less exists in the Cyber Shoto, Fulgore… like, KI2(?) had 2 totally different characters that were both Janet Jackson… nah man. I don’t want MK absurdity, but I want Nickelodeon: the Fighter way less.

The point you make about taunts is meh to me, but also you might be talking about inter-round win poses (might be wrong, I don’t really taunt in games). The repositioning phase though!? Yo, that’s a big thing KI does that others aren’t. Arbitrarily nixing sounds like a bad idea.

Yeah, i dunno man. This has been a real head scratcher. :dizzy_face:

On the topic of cyber jago, he doesn’t need to be a robot, he can have a cyber look while retaining his current moves.

But then he’s just Discount Fulgore…

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I think the general idea here is Jago having accessories that looks like he’s covered in futuristic tech.

Oh, and as far as the Monk thing goes…yes as far as canon goes he’s a monk, however it is obvious by his design not only in this KI but previous ones that he is an amalgamation of several eastern warrior tropes, and as such “ninja” fits him in terms of description just as well as “monk” does, though in this iteration of KI he is obviously more aligned with the “monk” moniker.
Whether or not you want to agree with that doesn’t dismiss the fact that there is some “ninja” influence in his design.

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Kan-Ra has a non-light flip out 0.0

Oh yeah, there’s definitely some ninja inspiration present. Old school Jago was like Right Said Ninja.

In this story though, the writers are like " This iz protagonist, him iz Tibet monk, whoa!". So the ninja ingredient feels more like a vague reason for him to wear a fancy partial mask. Westerner+half mask=ninja or something. I wouldnt be opposed to a more NRS accessory set, but I think it’s reaching to say his ninja elements are inspired by Asia and history more than the OG devs successful competition in their time.

I thought his M&H Grabs were flipouts. Is that incorrect? (been awhile and can’t check)

If Kan doesn’t, then my point is strengthened - the only way to strength lock v flipouts is to literally just randomly smash buttons. And the right stick, I suppose, if you use a controller.

EDIT: soz for double post. Formatting one handed on mobile is hella tough.

They are indeed flipouts.

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Medium and heavy grab flip out lel. I don’t think anyone uses them which is is fine anyway.

Seems out of character for Jago, no offense. I always pictured him as basically a ninja Ryu, even in the old KI games. I like the route the developers have gone with his character. Stoic, naturally gifted martial artist, who relies on his own skills and not upgrades, and is haunted by past sins he committed and a hatred for the one who corrupted him. Him being a cyborg or using cyber tech doesn’t really add to that (in my eyes at least).

If anything, I would picture his sister taking advantage of cyber tech instead. I could see Orchid being like “Graft that screwdriver to my forehead if it means taking down Ultratech! Beep Boop!!”

This is all my own opinion of course. Again no offense.

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