I try to find one but no sucsses =(
I also had doubts about frame data but it seems there’s none available. I think Jago was pretty solid,Orchid is not as top as she used to be and Wulf is very good, same as Glacius. Spinal seemed ok too. Fulgore was good too. I would love a good tier list from that game, but I’m not sure how much people played it. Looked like the original playerbase wasn’t fond of the changes.
I agree, This is exactly it. Smart point.
From a science/stats perpective, and the high bar required for credibility, this list is silly, bordering on nonsense.
From a sociological Stand point, this list is an interesting insight in what a few “top” players believe, and tells us much more about those players and their headspace than characters in the game and tier lists.
if you are inquisitive and naturally curious, this list is certainly fun. Thanks Paul (and everyone who contributed)
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Aganos’ winning matchups are against Arbiter and Gargos? Maybe I’m not doing something right but I’m going to have to disagree with that one. Tier lists are always difficult to create and I think even more difficult with a game like KI where all characters are more or less balanced.
It is really interesting to see what some of these top players think of their mains and MU evaluations.
Like, for example, the Gargos specialist bumped his head that morning. And Bass downplays Spinal post-buffs. Someone’s afraid of the retrospective nerf-hammer. XD
Just for the record, very very few fighting games in history are NOT “top tier or go home”. Historically, 75% of a fighting game’s roster is 100% obsoleted by the other 25%, and that’s a conservative number. Even the most popular modern game, SF5 Season 1, there was a very “set” top 8 (out of 22) that basically ran the entire tournament scene. Other characters had modicums of success here and there but it was very clear that, say… Xian, a FANG main, was being held back by his character. SF5 Season 2 looks to be another top 6-8 character game by early indications, just a different top 8 than before (Laura, Urien, Guile, Boxer join the party). The longest running current tournament fighter is Melee, which is basically a 7-ish character game (out of 25) with a super, super dominant top 2 or 3.
So if KI manages to get 50% of the roster with strong tournament viability, they’re already way ahead of the game. And I think there are at least 15-18 characters (out of 27) that can “easily” win a tournament right now.
2 Likes
So, some research I made:
Amount of favourable/even/unfavourable MUs for each character. First number is according to their specialist, second according to the rest. MU values were not considered, a 8-2 and a 6-4 are counted as the same. Maybe I will make it considering this later
Jago:
14-10-0 // 10-13-1
Sabrewulf:
6-7-11 // 6–11-7
Glacius:
2-12-10 // 5-11-8
Thunder:
4-15-5 // 6-10-8
Sadira:
3-10-11 // 3-9-12
Orchid:
12-7-5 // 3-14-7
Spinal:
3-7-14 // 6-9-9
Fulgore:
17-6-0 // 15-8-0
TJ:
3-12-9 // 1-13-10
Maya:
3-19-2 // 9-10-5
Kan-Ra:
7-10-7 // 4-5-15
Riptor:
7-9-8 // 6-12-6
Omen:
12-11-1 // 7-15-2
Aganos:
6-14-4 // 3-9-12
Hisako:
5-14-5 // 8-11-5
Cinder:
5-10-9 // 5-12-7
Aria:
14-7-3 // 12-10-2
Kim-Wu:
6-12-6 // 5-9-10
Tusk:
4-18-2 // 6-12-6
Rash:
7-9-8 // 3-15-6
Arbiter:
3-12-9 // 6-11-7
Mira:
10-6-8 // 4-13-7
Gargos:
12-9-3 // 11-9-4
Raam:
4-12-8 // 3-10-11
Feel free to correct me if I made any mistake.
Looking at this info, there are characters with similar results(Fulgore and Jago, for example), so both their specialist and the other players give them a similar number of winning/losing MUs.
Other characters seem more valorated than his specialist. Notable examples are Arbiter, Spinal and Glacius
At last, some characters seem to be less valued. Some examples are Kan-Ra, Orchid, Aganos or Mira
If I have time, I will post the tier list acording to the second clasification, including MUs values
Interesting
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Nobody is saying that tournament data is irrelevant, just pointing that the tournament results don’t define tiers, as you correctly say[quote=“llPaulBll, post:62, topic:17858”]
Omen’s debatable.
[/quote]
Everything is debatable, of course. Based in both the data granted(Only loses to Arbiter) and how the other specialists see Omen, a character who only loses 2 MUs (Gargos and Arbiter) seems pretty strong to me
I would doubt about Arbiter, I’m more inclined to put it as even, but IMO Aganos wins the MU against Gargos
How are you trying to arrange them? I think a Normal distribution would work, no? (The formula above)
Please elaborate.
@llPaulBll
Like I said not trying to be rude. But your last tier list had some inconsistencies with the matchups, only using limited players opinion on matchups, and other things that makes it very inconsistent because how it is subjective to player. What do you when people overate or underated their character. It just throws things of and put characters where they shouldn’t be.I love your idea with the tier list and the work you put in but in my opinion the limited sample size for each character decreases it’s credibility to me. Using at least 3 people to gauge match up charts would be nice. I know that might be difficult but us as a community could work together and collect the data for a bigger sample size that I believe it needs to be more trustworthy and credible. I wanna be able to confidently recommend your tier list instead of people saying ki doesn’t have one.
Edit
Example your cinder says cider loses to Aria but you Aria says Aria loses to cinder. Wouldn’t that mean someone’s wrong or the match ups even.
1 Like
No it means the 2 different people who provided MU charts for the 2 different characters didn’t agree about that matchup.
You can ask a doctor for medical advice or you can ask 100 mechanics.
Whose advice do you think will be more credible? 
Whens eyedol going to be added ?
The website appears to be down.