You know, you could at least ask for more than one opinion per character.
Some of these matchup charts make me cringe.
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Let me ask how do other communities mange to do so?
Youāre using an extreme, unrealistic scenario (that didnāt happen in 2 different versions of this tier list) to invalidate the entire thing.
Why donāt you take it at face value instead of trying to inflate its proposed value?
Itās not intended to DEFINE the gameās tiers, but to give you an idea of how people are rating the characters theyāre considered to be really good with.
It illuminates a few different things. One is how much certain players are downplaying their characters (look at Spinal, is he really the worst char in the game?)
Itās all relative and the fun part is drawing conclusions other than where characters lie on the tier list. Be analytical of the data instead of critical of the method and you might just learn something about this interesting game and community.
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Itās hard enough to get one per character, nevermind one plus. If you donāt agree with the matchup chart talk to the person who created it and have a discussion. You might help him change his mind or he may change yours.
fun!
SEE. This is exactly what I find interesting about this list, and one of the things it intends to illuminate.
People are quick to write off certain character placements because there is supposed common knowledge of a character being bad or good.
Listen to Sleep rant about KanRa long enough and youāll assume heās just an awful character that no one should useā¦ and because of this most people who were interested in that character donāt touch him anymore.
ā¦ and then thereās Fubuki who comes out and says KanRa beats all these characters pretty badly.
The knee-jerk reaction is to discredit the list. But maybe what you should be doing is considering that the character probably still has a ton of potential but too many people are trusting that Sleepās opinion of the character is valid.
Gotta open your mind.
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Actually, I think average confidence is somewhere in the 20ās, and actually higher this time around. There are outliers, of course, but thatās not bad.
20-40% is not numbers that make me want to trust the data.
I was mainly making fun of some of the % listed, like Bassās. 8%lol
but I get it, it is hard to really know in this game since its a LOT on the players.
Have you considered simply averaging the two charactersā matchup numbers and presenting that data as the ātier listā? Keep the individual matchup charts viewable as well, of course, but if you are going to put characters in a chart with a letter next to their name, it seems like using both data points you have (instead of just one data point) is a more thorough approach, no? Maybe you can color the background of the tile red if the difference is extreme (ie, both chars think 7-3 in favor and it averages to 5-5), or green if both agree on the score, with a gradient moving between the two.
I dunno, just some ideas that would only take a few minutes to implement and maybe present the data you already have in a new interesting light for us to consider.
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I disagree on many things. As Tusk and Orchid main, I find Orchid as perfect counterpick for Tusk.
Im shocked to see Shago so high on the List. Maybe Id go with a C, but B is a bit too high. Im even more surprised that Raam is one of his bad matchups. Maybe I just fight all the Raams who dont know how to deal with Shago but all I do is fireball all day and punish when they try to get in.
Another person Im shocked to see is Spinal, I thought heād be higher on the list, not bottom rank. His corner game is an inescapable vortex of setup skulls and teleports. At least for me.
Lastly Omen is an A-ranked character?! How?! When?! Does he have non-random fireballs now? What am I missing here?
Besides that, S is spot-on. When you have a character who can deal 75% damage combos with one bar of meter you know theyre good.
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It happened in a minor scale. Iām speaking out of my memory, but Fubuki rated Gargos-Kan-Ra as a 9-1 MU in the previous one. There are more subtle MUs data here(and in the previous one) that clearly goes nuts. And my intention is not invalidate the entire thing. Just pointing that the characters placement is not a media of the confidence chart: they are placed where their respective players mostly thinks they should be without caring about the rest of the MUs
Sure, as I said previously:
I do like the idea, A LOT. And I stated it in the previous one. But, as others pointed, I see points where the idea could be improved, and Iām just giving you some feedback to make it moreā¦ appealing
100% agree
I didnāt expected to see a satisfying tier list because each of us could have a different one and we are never going to 100% agree. The data provided has a lot of reads(interesting ones!). But that doesnāt mean that the method couldāt be improved. If Sleep and Fubuki have different ideas of what an advantageous MU is, obviously their data canāt be compared properly.
I(among others) suggested a way to improve this in the future. If you donāt like it itās ok, but anyway, I believed it was worth mentioning
Because if we only analise the data and donāt give any feedback to improve itā¦ well, if we apply that logic to the characters balance, nobody should complain about balance/design and just play whith what we have, isnāt it?
Omen is widely recognized as one of the best characters this season from a lot of people
Tier Lists are tier lists and will always be subject to interpretation and opinion, but I do agree with Sadiraās placement and I honestly donāt think anybody would argue that. It isnāt that Sadira is a bad character overall, but she has evolved into an incredibly complicated character of which makes her very difficult to win with.
KI has several characters that fall into this genre. Fulgore, Spinal, Cinder, and especially Mira are all difficult characters to master. Nobody can just pick up one of these characters and win consistently without digging a bit deep into the tech department, but each of them get massive payouts, where Sadira doesnāt.
What Sadira needs is ways to increase her damage output, as well as minor improvements to her webs, such as (as Iāve already mentioned in her thread) a bigger hitbox (or hurtbox) and a slight increase to its stagger time.
What she doesnāt need is more moves. Just refine the ones she has.
Thatās a good idea. The nightmare will be getting people to understand it.
Didnāt the Wulf player from the list said Wulf beat Spinal?.
Iām confused.
Omen and ARIA (the 2 characters I play) are so top tier, so top tier that they didnāt feature in the current 8 Bit Beatdownās top 16. No Arias at all and SK8 picked Fulgore versus Fubukiās Kan Ra. Oh, and they didnāt feature in KiTās top 8 either. I wonder if people picking them as top tier for both 3.5 and 3.6 now is an elaborate practical joke.
can u show me a vid of how people are breaking him? When I fight Omens all they do is random fireball me at midscreen into Slide, or go into soul satellite after hard knockdown.
Tournament placements is irrelevant when discussing tiers.
Omen and Aria are great characters, very strong.
And remember this: all the characters are viable.
I donāt understand, what do you mean?
Do you have footage of highlevel gameplay from an Omen player?