KI Matchups, help needed! ~ Aganos


#1

Hi, I’m currently making a matchup PowerPoint on the KI Characters for new beginners, For Aganos, I need help from people who know how he works and i need to know crucially, what characters from the whole roster are difficult opponents for him, and what are characters are safe for him to play against. You will definitely receive credit for the help. ~ Kieran


Should we Start Match-Up Threads
#2

Granted these matchups are purely IMO, but as an Aganos main who has mained him since his release and who has recently competed in CEO, I like to think I know a little bit about what I’m talking about.

Aganos > Jago

Jago is good all-around, but all he really has going for him are his frametraps. If the golem has even 1 chunk, he can’t use his DP without getting punished, and his projectiles are easily flicked away, blocked, or punished with shadow ruin (especially during Jago’s instinct). Furthermore, he has few options when kept at a distance with payload assault and/or the peacemaker other than to use his projectile or to use his windkick, which will be expected, blocked, and punished.

Aganos > Sabrewulf

This dog is all about getting in, and if he can, he’s good to go with his super-fast frametraps throws, and great sweeps, but unless he does so quickly, that’s going to be quite hard for him. Also, without having any real ranged options available to him, it makes it rather easy for the golem to get him to heel.

Aganos = Glacius

Prior to S3, the iceman didn’t stand a chance, but because of his newfound ability to put out multiple projectiles, dash, and puddle offensively really well during instinct all help to make this a rather even matchup. Glacius, however, still suffers from 1-hit attacks which can be problematic if the golem has his chunk armor working for him. However, while in instinct, he can gain a slight edge in some situations (like making ruin punishable on hit), especially with his increased puddle speed to get out of situations he doesn’t want to be in. He can also use multi-hail to counter Aganos jumps, to remove armor, or to create openings that otherwise wouldn’t be there.

Aganos = Thunder

This native American is strong and has numerous tools to destroy Aganos, but like the dog, he has to get in 1st. His command grab, as damaging as it is is his best tool. His long reach is good too, especially now that standing heavy normals beat armor in S3. His dashing ability in instinct or when charged with the call of the sky is also useful for mixups, as is his back-throw, which can also be used to fish for lockouts. While his sammamish is good, it won’t penetrate the golem’s chunk armor easily, and can lead to him easily being punished as a result - and that’s assuming the golem doesn’t block it to begin with. The golem simply needs to keep his distance, setup walls, punish and wall-crash him.

Aganos > Orchid

Orchid has great mixup options with her grenades and firecats, but the grenades are often easily avoided or absorbed, and the firecats are only available to her during her instinct. Her slide and flick-flack are easily blocked and punished and her ichi-ni-san can be blocked and easily shadow-countered at any point during her attack to open her up. Furthermore, yet again due to lack of ranged options, she has to get in, which means that it’s rather easy for the golem to keep her at a distance. It doesn’t help her that the golem can easily stomp out her grenades or detonate them prematurely with payload assault. Her air-grab and DP can be an issue at times, however.

Aganos < Sadira

In this matchup, Sadira easily has the advantage against the golem due to her abilty to be a pest. She operates in the air, where the golem is weakest, and can easily stay there, hovering around his head if she so chose. Furthermore, even at a distance, her in-air control makes her incredibly difficult to counter effectively since all the angles seem to be just outside of most of the golem’s own trajectories. Her widow’s bite is also effective at removing chunks on the way in as well, if not blocked or avoided effectively. However, a patient, careful, defensive, and zoning Aganos can still gain the upperhand. This is 1 of his hardest matchups.

Aganos < Fulgore

The cyborg has mixups with his ranged attacks and a teleport that can lead into easy mixups as well. Furthermore, his DP hits multiple times, which can easily remove chunks. Even worse, as he builds meter, he gets faster and has more options open up to him. This is easily 1 of the golem’s worst matchups.

Aganos = Spinal

This bony fella has some tools that are very effective against the golem (projectiles and a teleport), like with the cyborg above, but is tempered due to his poor normals and need to get skulls. However, his ability to quickly run in and get an easy throw can be problematic for the golem. Furthermore, his projectiles aren’t truly dangerous until he gains skulls to use them. The trick here is not to allow this cackling fiend to gain momentum.

Aganos = Maya

Maya has some of the best projectiles in the game, but they can easily be flicked away by the golem or simply ignored with chunks. Her other specials are also easily blocked, shadow-countered, or punished as well. A solid defense will be required to defeat this monster hunter, but if that’s in abundance, then all that’s needed is patience enough to find the openings that are all-too often, abundatntly clear. Her daggers, do however, make it harder to chunk up once you lose them, so be especially careful when chunkless.

Aganos = TJ Combo

This boxer may be an underdog, but don’t be fooled - his tremor can remove chunks. His auto-barrage, speed, and fake-outs are also to be feared. His roll and punching charge (when he actually does it) are, thankfully, easily punishable. Unfortunately, his shadow vortex can easily keep the golem from getting in or crossing up. His lack of projectiles are what really make this matchup a dead heat.

Aganos = Kan-Ra

In this matchup, it’s actually in the golem’s favor to get in, where the sorcerer is weakest, but if that doesn’t happen, then the mummy will have all of the time, and traps, to gain the advantage. If that happens, the golem will have to become incredibly patient, and defensive, to find an opening. The sandsworm is vulnerable on startup, though, so a quick natural disaster should be enough to get in. If chunk armor is still availble, it’s simply a matter of keeping the evil, little man in the corner where he belongs.

Aganos < Riptor

This dinosaur, while rather antiquated, is 1 of the golem’s worst nightmares. She is quick, has projectiles, great frametraps, and mixups, and plasma claws are perfectly suited for cutting through rock. Her clever girl is easily punishable on block, however (assuming you don’t fail to read her potential crossup). She also can’t jump over the golem without it, so take advantage of that!

Aganos = himself

Chunk-armor does not apply her, and neither do walls, really, since they can be knocked down or grabbed by either golem regardless of who they belong to. This is the slugfest of Titans in the truest sense of the word. Putting a wall behind your opponent here can be used to bait them into grabbing it, giving you an opportunity to get in and punish.

Aganos = Omen

This servant of evil can be a nuisance for the golem more than anything. His projectiles don’t do much damage and can be punished with good timing and shadow ruin, but if the rock-man isn’t careful, they can be used to remove chunks and/or create openings. His flurry of kicks can also be difficult to combo-break as well. HIs DP can very effective at keeping the golem from crossing up or jumping in on wake-up too. His slide and his jumps are where he’s weakest, but his random projectiles can help make those relatively safe.

Aganos < Hisako

This ghost has counters, reach, and plenty of wrath to spare. Her command grabs as well as her ability to low poke very effectively in addition to those, are what makes her dangerous. Because this, the golem is almost always in a perpetual 50/50 mixup. Her rekka and teleport are her weakpoints, as both can be exploited due to their rather slow speed.

Aganos = Cinder

The man on fire can be a nuisance with his pyrobombs and in-air antics, but both, if managed correctly can be punished. If the former is spammed, it can create openings for the golem, but the relatiation will have to be quick before he can detonate any previous sticks; they can be flicked away, but the timing is rather difficult. His low flamethrower attack can be particularly dangerous, especially if he has shadow meter, as it can be followed up with a shadow trailblazer for an easy combo-opener, so keep those feet wet! If he’s not fired up, a c.HP will easily bring this meteor man crashing right back down to earth after his DP (or even better, through several walls with an instant ruin follow-up). If he is fired up, simply poke him after the column of fire with s.LK.

Aganos = ARIA

ARIA has a lot of good tools to use against the golem, but only a few at a time. Her shotgun knee is easily punishable on block, but her assists can make that rather difficult by making it safe if in the right hands. Do not be afraid to punish a whiffed assist with a ruin or shadow ruin, because her bodies will take over double the amount of usual damage, making her less effective later in the fight. Her crossup-game with assists however is incredibly dangerous though, so keep an eye out if she tries to use an assist to do exactly that, and pay attention to what comes first between the assist and her own attack, and act accordingly.

Aganos > Shago

This shadow of a once proud man is easily defeated outside of surge. Simply block low during any divekick or slide, and punish right after. His projectiles do very little damage and as such are more annoying than anything - still they can be used to zone, so go on the defensive and pick your opporunities. If he surges, hold the block for longer and then counter where available AFTER the surged move. He can juggle after most surged moves on hit however; if this happens, he must follow it up with a manual - these can be broken on a good read, or if you’re patient the usual follow-up flip-kick can also be broken with a heavy combo-breaker.

Aganos = Rash

His wrecking ball can seem dangerous, but actually isn’t as long as the golem blocks the move and the follow-up attack. Watch for his tongue as well, as it can remove chunks and give him additional shadow meter. However, if he comes in with the tongue, and chunks are being swallowed, he can be easily punishable. His boot also makes for an effective DP and anti-jump tool, so watch for that. If he pulls any straight punches, that’s instantly combo-breakable with a light breaker.

Aganos > Kim Wu

Kim needs to get in close to win. Simply keep your distance, watch for her flying dragon kick (and punish it on block). Her dragons can be used to dragon cancel to make her blocked combos safe or for an effective crossup. Be ready to hold your block if she makes a blocked combo safe as it can prevent her from creating a reset. Also be ready to reverse your block if she jumps over your head.

Aganos > Tusk

Tusk is slow, but powerful. Keep your distance, wait for him to attack and whiff. When that happens, punish. Do NOT let him hit you.

Aganos = Mira

Her own bloodletting is the golem’s advantage. Stay on the defensive until she’s weak, and watch for her command grab. If she uses her air-dash or mist-form, attempt to punish them during the recovery, like with a back-jumped natural disaster, for example.

Aganos > Gargos

Knock him down. If he’s got range, block the portal punch and immediately retaliate with a natural disaster, as most shadow lords attempt another portal punch immediately after. After he’s knocked down, he’s as weak as the pitiful sorcerer mentioned earlier.

Aganos > Raam

This is definitely a game of keep-away. Ruin will almost always work against any of his kryll shield attacks, but not his emergence. Be sure to hold up if he tries to flip you out from the ground a lot to avoid his devastating command grab and reset. If he charges, don’t jump backwards; jump forwards and hit him the back instead if you can’t wall-crash him with ruin.

Aganos = Eyedol

Eyedol has a lot of tools, but can only use so many at a time. Stay chunked, watch for DP/overhead and multi-hitting lightning attacks and this fight should end in your favor.


#3

Aganos sucks against all characters apart from tj , simple


#4

!! definitely not true. Add me. Let’s play. :slight_smile:


#5

I still have yet to play your Aganos with my Jago.


#6

What about Arby?


#7

Sorry, I wouldn’t have missed this Halo-centric icon if it wasn’t for the fact that I had to stop writing up my post to go eat dinner. I was sure I was going to forget someone, though, so at least now I know who it is. With that in mind, here ya go:

Aganos > Arbiter

This elite zealot is most definitely the elite one in this matchup, and for only 1 reason - his carbine. It fires fast and with multiple shots, and is incredibly difficult to counter properly unless you can predict that your opponent’s going to do it beforehand. Any smart sanghielli warrior will easily use this to prevent you from chunking up or to remove any chunks you may already have. For this reason, it’s strategically important to get in close, where he’s weak, while also staying as much on the defensive as possible. His grenade setups and comand grab won’t do the golem any favors either, and neither will his reach. The good news is that he only has 1 overhead, by way of his slow over-arching swing special move (I don’t recall what it’s called), so you can block low for the most part, and then reactively switch to high when you see it coming. Force him to waste his ammo, and the game can be yours for the taking. Block, block, block!


#8

I think your assessment needs to be adjusted just a tiny bit. Arby also has his gun butt overhead which is something like +12/+9. He only has one low so most of the time you should actually stand block against him since his overhead options are deadlier than the one low he has (although his low can lead to juggles and if timed right with grenades can lead to nasty setups)


#9

What? No, always block high against Arbiter, he only has one low and he can’t combo off of it without the grenade to recapture.

Also not wise. Aganos’ armor doesn’t take effect during pre-jump frames so Raam can just hit you and get a combo. Aganos actually has to take this mix up like the rest of the cast, he just happens to have an extra escape option if he anticipates a hit instead of a grab.


#10

@SithLordEDP

Vs. Arby = What about his crouching attacks? Aren’t they low? I thought they were.

Vs. Raam = the jump is to avoid the 1-frame command grab, which is incredibly deadly. While Aganos is indeed vulnerable in the air to a potential mix-up (e.g., c.HP), it’ll be far less deadly than the command grab’s potential setup on hit. With that being said, perhaps a back-dash would be better (probably not though, since it’s the golem we’re talking about here)?


#11

Nope, only one of his attacks is actually low.

As for the Raam mix up, backdash would probably avoid it but you’d just get hit out of the recovery afterward anyway. You simply have to guess right between throw or hit, I wouldn’t say getting hit by one is worse than the other though, if you get grabbed you eat a bunch of damage and get thrown right back in the same mix up again, if you get hit you eat a full combo which can also still throw you back into the same mix up.


#12

To my knowledge, Raam doesn’t have anything to use to bounce or juggle you out of the air into a combo if you jump. If he hits you with an attack rather than the command throw, it’ll merely end in a soft knockdown (and maybe kryll damage), which enables you to get up faster than he can stomp you, so long as you quick-rise (which you should ALWAYS attempt to do when in close proximity to Raam). There is no mixup here. His only really good options against someone in the air is medium or heavy emergence and or c.HP, neither of which combo off of a quick-rise.


#13

Not always a good idea. If you jump, and he hits you with a meaty after a flipout, you will be hit during pre jump frames. During pre jump frames, armor is ignored, you are invul to throws, and if you are hit you are still grounded, so you can be comboed.

So jumping wins against throw attemps, but loses to anything else. And badly


#14

You guys are telling me things that I already know, and that I’ve already addressed - he can’t combo with said meaty so long as you quick-rise. Besides, in all likelihood, most Raam players will attempt either the command grab for damage and reset or medium emergence to get kryll on you. Otherwise, his best meaty is his best anti-air - c.HP, which won’t combo. Furthermore, if he tries to stab you, it’s so slow, that it CAN’T hit during the pre-jump frames. If the timing’s right, he might be able to us his 3P focus attack, but to avoid that, all you’d have to do is crossup.

1 last thing - the OP asked for matchup advice for every character. I’m not going to cover every single possible scenario in writing it up for him - that would be impossibly too long and tedious, so naturally I’m going to not have things included. What I offered him was a simple example and addressed 1 scenario with a solution, and you guys are attempting to throw a wrench into it by asking “what if?” We could do that until the end of time if we wanted to (and you just might), but quite frankly, I have other things I’d rather do.


#15

You’re misunderstanding. If you hold up after the flip out the meaty from Raam will catch you standing, in a grounded state, not hit you out of the air, meaning he will get a full normal combo which he can then end with a hard knockdown and put you back into the same mix up.


#16

I still stand by this.


#17

I’ve never fought a RAAM that has tried for a Medium Emergence after a flipout. Usually the RAAM’s I fight will go for a MP or HP into a medium dagger or even a heavy dagger just to check the opponent from jumping if they don’t go for another command grab.


#18

Id actually say some of these mus have changed after playing many notable specialists with them.

Example Aganos=jago sadira and wulf now
Aganos over thunder


#19

I agree with you on those, and I also think that Aganos/Kim Wu is either = or in Aganos favor, depending on the skill level of both players.


#20

That mu is heavily in aganos favor. LCD played myself and zerg. Lost 10-3 and 10-2 respectively.