Would even see the initial startup frames of the overhead for the kara cancel fireball? I don\t think so.
Just barely. Thompson pulled it off in tourney or on stream or something, there’s a vid floating around here somewhere. You can see it, but just barely. I actually had to watch the vid a few times to catch it, it’s really fast. It is seeable, though.
SOZ FOR OFFTOPIC. DAMMIT, DAVID.
Really? It seems more technical than that. I have tried the motion as fast as I could, though maybe I didn’t correctly input the motion. I’ll need to keep trying to see if I can get it down.
I know the actual move isn’t very necessary and if the motion is as you say, it wouldn’t be ideal considering you have to put the thought and dedication on a single flashily input.
Personally, I just want to know I am able to do it as much as I was finally able to do the Grimmmz Special. Nothing practical, just flashy, but cool nonetheless.
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I tested that. It’s the meaty fireball that allows it. It’s as if you need to be in Instinct, need to throw a light fireball after a Shadow fireball juggle, and your opponent needs to quick rise in order for it to work.
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…whaaaaaa??? B-b-bu… but why? Why is that so ridiculous? I thought it was just a kara-cancel, but it sounds more like a very nuanced bug… How does one go about discovering such a thing? That is sooo specific.
I am too dumb for fighting games. Much respect, Mr. Scientist.
This can happen in quite a few cases where an attack is coming out on the same frame when projectiles are hitting/being blocked.
Like this: Kan-Ra setups
For Jago, there probably other cases where you can make a fireball meaty, but they probably all involve Instinct.
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OHHHH It’s one of those, ehhh, how do you say… system quirks? XD So it’s not a kara w/ his OH, but the calculated application of a situational kara window applied to pretty much everything? Is it only buttons or can it work w/ specials?
I thought it was just an old sportster. I didn’t realize it was The Delorean.
I’ve seen her0oftim3 do this sort of psuedo-karacancel involving blocked fireballs in some of his videos, whiffing buttons and canceling them into more fireballs while zoning. I wanna say he mentioned it allowing him to throw fireballs faster.
So, if it can be done involving a meaty fireball, then the mixup potential off the lvl 4 meaty can be strengthened, going for an overhead when you confirm the fireball is blocked, and either letting it rock or karaing into fireball dash cancel into further mixup opportunity. I’ll have to look into this more when I get back from being out of town.
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i wish the shagos had tech like this.
good thing im switching to main jago. 
Shagos do have tech like this, LITERALLY the same thing as jago, same buttons.
@Papstr1 thank you for the vids, it’ll definitely help players and there should be more content like this out there. Now all it takes is people willing to apply these tips/tricks, and knowledge to other situations/characters.
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thats good though, learn your fundamentals, if you don’t have them shago will make you worse as a player.
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I look at this thread and I know it’s supposed to be helpful, but most of it is flying over my head as if it were a foreign language with all of the FG terms and short-hand that’s being tossed around. 
So to try to break it down, here’s how it works, taking the sweep setup as an example. I hit my opponent with sweep as Jago. Let’s say the opponent is Glacius. I know this particular setup works on him, so I ready myself for it. When I hit the sweep, I immediately hold upforward. This will cause Jago to jump as soon as possible (which happens to be the timing for this particular set up) As Jago comes down with a jumping medium kick, I hold downback on the joystick to prepare to block. One of a couple things will happen:
If Glacius decides to just block:
Then he blocks my jumpin as expected, and I get pressure or whatever as normal.
If Glacius does something invincible, so puddle punch:
Then I land in time to block, and get to punish it. This is because Puddle Punch is invincible, but still has startup. Since he’s invincible, I don’t hit him, causing us to pass through each other. However, Jago has enough time to land and just block the move.
If Glacius does something NOT invincible, like just mash a normal:
Then he gets hit, because the jump in is actually meaty.
@ZeroSyndicate Yeah dude, I have other kinda content lined up in the future, might not all be Jago specific, and I might play around with other characters and see what else I can find just because the cast is so fun to explore.
@FGCSlamjam The other stuff isn’t gonna work, but the sweep setup will work with Shago due to Jago and Shago’s sweep and jump arcs being identical framedata wise.
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I get the concept already (thanks BTW). I’m just confused with individual examples and setups.
quick question, is the “safejump” whiffpunishable by Shago’s demon? A great setup for Shago’s demon is for an opponent to whiff a move in the air and go into it during their, i guess, land recovery, Im not sure what to call it. If the opponent just jumps in the air and lands, they can just jump over demon again, but if they whiff a move in the air, sort of like what “safejumps” do, they eat the demon because theyre in Land recovery.
Also in terms of his Oki, My personal Oki is just Meaty -> L.special, or Meaty -> Overhead, or Meaty -->Grab, meaty --> Neutral jump ->high/low buttons, or meaty -> Cr.LK . Sajam has an Oki tutorial with Sadira, this is where I learned all this, something that frustrates me to no end because base Oki means nothing to Shago but I digress.
Where do Safejumps fit into this? And what are your wakeup options as a person on the other end of this offense? And maybe Im blind but Safejumps dont actually crossup do they?
edit: Speaking of crossups, what is the “oki” for crossup? At most all I do is crossup and if my mk gets blocked on the other side Im back to footsies.
I’ll try to tackle these paragraphs one at a time.
First: Shago’s demon is only throw invincible, so the setup off sweep and lvl 4 battery ender will beat the demon. I made sure to test that. This is because in these instances the jump in or the fireball hit meaty, causing him to be hit out of start up.
Second: safejumps are just another option on a knockdown. Any instance where you land a sweep, you could’ve walked up and did a ground meaty or whatever instead. The strength of a safejump is that it forces respect and works towards conditioning. For example, let’s say I safejump a player a few times in a match. The player might finally realize, “maybe I shouldn’t reversal, and just block.” Once I’ve conditioned my opponent to respect on wakeup, I can be a bit more daring in my mixups, such as going for an empty jump low, empty jump throw, or whatever else I may decide. They’re a way to open the door the stronger oki possibilities, they aren’t necessarily the be all end all (unless your opponent is a huge moron and insists on DPing it every time, in which case you can just keep doing it and murder them)
As for the opponent’s options, they do have a few. The obvious one is to simply block it and take the pressure, which I’d argue you rightfully earned off a knockdown anyway. Since this is KI, they can always try to Shadow Counter after blocking the jump in. Another thing they can do is backdash on wakeup, but if you anticipate it, you can always chase the backdash with something or even OS it. As for if a safejump crosses up, it depends on the setup in question. I will say that if you happen to land the sweep particularly close, you will end up crossing up when you jump forward when you pass over them.
The crossup itself is the “oki.” Oki, or Okizeme, is just a term to describe the wakeup game, or stuff you do on the opponent’s wakeup. Consider this: in even a game like Street Fighter 2, if I knock the opponent down I have a couple options. I can jump at them and even decide to crossup, forcing them to guess left/right, or even empty jump and go low. This combination of decisions I can do is the oki game itself. As for what to do if it gets blocked, you have frame advantage and thus can apply pressure in whatever way the character does so.
oh i figure out how to kara fireballs. This video shows it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDwp0quOXM
Basically you cancel the recovery by whiffing s mk as the fireball gets blocked, and then fireballing. If you do qcf mk fireball it works easy
I’m… not quite sure of it’s utility but forward moving fireballs is always nice. Close range fireball hits too fast to kara cancel so i dunno why youd do overhead,
The trick to Jago’s kara cancel is that the engine lets you cancel normals into specials if the opponent is in block stop (not block stun), even on whiff. For some reason, they don’t test if the normal you’re pressing is the thing that is causing the block stop. So if you can set up meaty fireball, such that you are in neutral when the fireball causes block stop, then you can press a normal and kara-cancel it into fireball, as if you were simply doing normal xx fireball on a blocking opponent. This tends to move Jago forward, like most good kara cancels do, and it makes his zoning a little more potent because you can throw meaty fireball -> fireball very fast from a range you can’t otherwise walk to. I think some Jago player did some testing and you can jump over “regular” meaty fireball -> fireball, but you can’t jump over the kara version, which means Jago in instinct gets to build a ton of extra meter, or confirm with more unbreakable damage if the first fireball hits, etc etc.
Okay, I need reminders for what the following are:
Kara-cancels
Block-stop
xx
…in order to understand your explanation.
EDIT: @MDMMORNING addressed my concern in a PM. 
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False. Every character in the game has okizeme options, and Shago’s aren’t bad by any means. If plus on block pressure is what you want, then he has good normals with which to achieve this. Shago has left/right/high/low/throw pressure off most of his good close normal buttons, and you don’t always have to be negative bajillion to go for much of these options. Understand that you are not forced to go for unsafe mixups if you don’t want to - Shago has good enough buttons that he can frame trap pretty effectively if that what he wants to do. But also understand the value of keeping someone honest by using the unsafe mixup options judiciously.
And as someone else said, if someone blocks your safe jump then you are now at advantage in front of them - use those plus frames to press your advantage further.
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