Issues with Arbiter: questions and suggestions

Unlike some folks who will often use pure rage and rambling to get points across I’m going to be fair as possible with the Arbiter players also in mind when I say this. Cause most balance callouts usually aren’t polite or usually always hate filled, so I’ll try to be as nice as possible. Thank you.

After having fought against Arbiter and played as him, I say of all characters in fighting game history he is the most balanced gun user in the entire game. Because while you can just go “pew-pew” with your gun the ammo is alone to stop you. That being said There’s only a few issues I do have with Arbiter and specifically his grenades and his gun.

Now honestly I’m not saying that they’re that OP but I admit they are kind of a pain for the fact that they can be used a lot.

For example his grenades, I know that as you use them they have a bigger cooldown time but my issue with the grenades is I don’t think that’s severe enough of a punishment for folks who just waste it and also at the same time spam it by throwing it constantly. Another issue I have is the constant use of the Carbine after knocking someone in the air with a launcher. I admit this can be grading when someone keeps using it that being aid I have some suggestions:

For Grenades:

I have 2 suggestions 1 I think would be too heavy which is you can only throw one grenade at a time, but you can still use the grenade face slapping even if the other one is out considering it’s mostly a defensive move. This would be an issue understandably so my second and less offensive suggestion is if you THROW a grenade it increases your cool down by 50% each time you throw it, so it makes you think and respect the amount of grenades you have on hand.

However if you use the grenade face slapping on yourself it won’t cost you a cool down because again, it’s defensive and you do take damae for it, so the coold down remains the same.

For the Carbine:

I think it’s good as it is save for the fact that the Arbiter can use it to juggle opponents while in the air, now IDK if it costs you any ammo when using the juggle with the weapon but I personally feel like there needs to be more of a consequence with it. It’s just to round out that extra bit of damage right?

well some folks I play against use it all the time, but considering they’re not always shooting from the back and actually fighting me they always have plenty of ammo to spare. Just enough for it to be used every single combo.

I have three suggestions and it’s based on weather or not the Arbiter DOES use ammo for the juggle: If it doesn’t, make it cost them ammo, make a clear consequence for using that attack every time you do. If it does cot ammo you can disregard this suggestion and hear out the second one:

Make it BREAKABLE. I say this because the move is obviously done with a heavy button input right? why not make it breakable like with the rest of the cast? everyone else can juggle with heavy attacks and or juggles of any sort and they can be broken. Some folks don’t know this and other people do.

Now if that’s too harsh for you than reduce the damage heavily so it’s not as bad in some cases.

Now before ya whip out your pitch-forks ( if you have them out put them back before you jab someone’s eye out)

There’s always an upside to having a breakable juggle, you can use it for counter breaker bait, not only that but it will also encourage Arbiter players that abuse the unbreakable carbine juggle to try out different attacks or maybe put them in line with the arbiters that do something other than shoot you out of the sky like some duck after launching you with a combo.

It’s honestly a similar issue I have with games like MKX and MVC3 if a move or combo works to well witout consequences, people will rely heavily if not only on that move much rather than their whole arsenal of attacks and skill.

KI usually always as a remedy for this by making consequences for lack of variety in the players habits. Breakable combos are some of the best examples, along with projectile passing shadow moves and counter breakers to deal with people who guess break etc. I think the Arbiter’s carbine juggle should have the same consequence.

Now to make people feel more comfortable about the suggestion I always do a counterbalance sort of: The juggle will not cost you any ammo because it’s so easy to break. Unless it doesn’t cost you any ammo and in that case it’s fine.

Other than what’s stated above, the Arbiter is a fun and pretty decently balanced character. Fun to fight and fight as.

Anyways there’s my statement I hope you guys consider this before you go hanging folks. Also: I am open to a counter point about some of these issues. Why do you feel like the carbine juggle should not be broken?

Not sure if you will believe me on this but when you fire that carbine even while juggling, it will cost you Ammo. You also waist the ammo by shooting while jumping OR! by spamming it a lot from a distance. It’s a good idea for you to keep track of the Ammo you or your opponent has because if they waist it they won’t have anything to continue their distance.

I also only use the grenades to apply pressure on my opponents since I cannot just play Arby the same way I play my top 3 (You know who they are)

also, There is more to Arby than just shooting and grenade throwing. I actually fought Arbiters who did nothing but that and it cost them dearly.

My issue is there’s enough ammo to use it every time you launch someone with a combo and it’s so predictable after awhile you should be able to break it to punish the arbiter player for making it predictable. The Arbiter player in question should do something other than that all the time after a launch in the air.

As for the grenades: One of my suggestions is you can still throw multiple grenades it will just have a longer cool down time as one of the examples I stated.

Also another thing to note I know that not all Arbiter players do that. I just feel some of the Arby’s attacks don’t have a consequence like the Carbine juggle after a launcher in the air. My problem is after being hit with it so many times in the match you can see it coming, yet you can do nothing about it.

Now since it supposedly does use ammo one suggestion I have state in the above post is: If it’s breakable it won’t cost you ammo.

Besides in that same scenario you can counter break and get a full combo off of it. Or you can easily do different stuff like sword juggles etc.

Riptor’s Motors aren’t breakable either. At leastI don’t think so.

Only a select few projectiles are breakable and he cancels his enders and throws specifically into shots or grenades as part of his combat evolved trait, and as such he cannot use different moves to juggle as he can’t cancel into different moves. Adding the extra shots does about 8% for 3 shots, as opposed to around 8% for 1 or 16% for 3 in neutral, so if he is using it only at the end of the combo then good for you.

Grenades are best used for setups and take 12 seconds per grenade to recharge, so if he stands at the other side of the screen and wastes them all then that is punishment enough, particularly as he loses his meter less reversal.

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So what you’re saying is there is no consequence for using the carbine shots after a laucher is because he really cannot do anything else?..Seems like he doesn’t have a lot of combo potential outside of what he does on the ground. Hmm…

He really doesn’t. You can do a few things with sweep->lunge->shield cancel and cr.frwd.HK in the corner, but thats about it.

Considering the grenades do no damage, come in limited amount and can also hit Arbiter, someone spamming them is spelling out death for themselves. Some character even have effective strategies of using the grenades against Arbiter. Rash can recapture him with a good timed throw and Glacius can liquidize under Arbiter while the grenade explodes.

I’ll admit the carbine combos are a little silly, but they’re projectiles so they shouldn’t be breakable. Only nerf can see done to them is for them to stop building potential damage.

In my testing, carbine shots tagged on to an ender do about 2% per shot (so a max of 6% extra), and this is regardless of what combo came before it. It just seems to be a stock value.

Carbine shots in neutral do a little over 10% each on their own due to the huge first hit bonus and 16% for the 3-hit combo as you said.

As for the suggestions in this thread, carbine shots after an ender should probably only be used if they’re going to kill someone. I think they are a pretty big waste of ammo otherwise, so it seems like an odd thing to complain about. I’ll take the 6% damage for 3 shots instead of having him shoot 3 shots in neutral and get 3 chances at doing 10% (each) for a projectile you can’t react to from full screen.

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The Carbine is a projectile and all projectiles are unbreakable. The Carbine is fine. The biggest issue is the amount of damage he has off his best setup ender. Do a 1 chance break into his command grab ender. Its too much.

Considering that you will likely have tons of ammo with the Carbine to begin with I disagree that the ammo would be going to waste.

I guess while the carbine juggle after a launch ender is going to be a tad repetitive I guess if it doesn’t really do that much damage it’s fine I guess.

I can vouch for that. I fought other Arbiters who mad ethat mistake and even I wound up paying for it to.

Arbiter’s bullets are extremely precious. You don’t have “tons of ammo”, you have to be incredibly selective where you use it.

Just think of the added on bullets like “part 2 of the ender”. And you can’t break enders. Repetitiveness is not the reason to make something breakable (because you see the same ender animations 10 times per match and people aren’t bothered by that), you’d make it breakable if it added interesting strategic options. Arbiter can either spend ammo to tack on 6%, attach a grenade, or do nothing. There’s no other options for him.

I have a tough time when they throw a grenade after an ender and then command grab. If you avoid the command grab, the grenade staggers you and the reach on his sword will still recapture you and combo. either way you basically cant do any thing but hope you never get caught with an ender and grenade. Which is near impossible.

Im not a fan of being on the receiving side of that set up…its pretty cheap IMO

I don’t believe such a setup exists. Can you show me?

There are no timings where Arbiter gets a guaranteed meaty command grab (and you MUST jump) where the grenade also recaptures and doesn’t hit Arbiter.

I don’t know who you play, but you should be able to avoid this setup by other means. Arby WANTS you to believe your options are a lose-lose between block and jump, but most (all?) characters have better ways to turn it around on him. Most universal would be to jab him out of the grab and go into combo - worst case is the 'nade pops and you both eat it to neutral reset. If you’ve got a projectile invincible move, that solves 'nade both from neutral and in combo. If you’ve got full invincibility, that’s also an answer. The real bees knees though is a teleport. Take the sticky, teleport out.

I’ve also seen Hisako and ARIA straight up leave it behind with teleport and body switch, respectively. Haven’t done any testing to dig deeper into “shake off the 'nade” tech, but it could be worthwhile to look into, even if just for your character.

He probably means this mix up:

Truth Seeker ender (or Mercy’s Demise as well) > Grenade ; lk flip out ; Command Grab.

If you jump the command grab in this setup, you don’t get recaptured by the grenade. In fact, you get to punish Arbiter, and if you’re smart about your punish, the grenade won’t hurt you.

I know, but I have no other idea of any other similar set up he is talking about.

maybe recapture is the wrong word… either you take the grab or you take the grenade… either way there isnt much you can do. You know what Im talking about…EVERY Arbiter player uses this set up.

Yes you can jump…but if you are Omen its not a good option with his floaty jump

And I know you can use the grenade against him…but its doesnt always work as his reach can catch you with a manual type hit canceled into an opener. (But I guess im the only one that gets hit by that, because most of you play the perfect game and nothing every works against you becasue everything is perfect! in your play :wink:

Im not the one who wrote this thread…Im just stating what bothers me… dont turn this thread around as if Im the one wanting him changed.

Omen has even better options than the rest of the cast (jump -> air dash back lets you land faster than regular jumps).

You say “you know the setup I’m talking about” but I really don’t. :confused: