“tournaments”, “yeah this happens…”, “this happens all the time…” Doesn’t really pertain to KI tournaments, but to other communities. Mostly the Marvel community. Where I came from. 100% It’s not normal in THIS community. I’ve never had this happen to me except for once and it was in XvSF at Evo 20-something.
I’m pretty sure I never said “safe spaces”. I bet my life on it. Even if I did, it’s not an implication to anything. It’s about adjusting to your environment. That’s why you have the option to mute and/or block players. You just can’t filter them in an offline setting.
It has nothing to do with the “in” crowd. I can’t stand when people try to justify something because they’re not in the “in crowd”… < see what I did there? lol Nah, seriously though. I travel alone. I play alone. Sure, I’ve made friends at these events, but guess what? I didn’t know anyone when I started either! Crazy, huh? Just like when you go to a new high school. Different analogy and hopefully you can get understand this. I got plenty of other examples to use if your’e still wanting to twist my words.
You know what? You seem pretty adamant about arguing with me on this based on what you’re read, but haven’t ever attended an event yourself. At the end of the day, it’s up to you if you want to attend an event or stay home. No one is forcing you to do either. This… can be applied to everything and every environment. Stress is everywhere, my friend. We ALL go through it. We ALL perceive stress different too. In fact, we go through some type of stress DAILY. Good or bad and we each deal with it differently and at different experience levels.
You can word lawyer all you want, but this quote says that the problem is not the behavior of spectators, it’s the inability of players to deal with it. And the complaint wasn’t generic - about all the bright lights and loud people. It was specific. Actual people were yelling specific things at the participant in a way that he says made him uncomfortable and ruined his experience. What he describes, and what others corroborate sounds unacceptable to me. Not just “people deal with stress differently.” I’m going to resist the urge to argue ad absurdum but I don’t think you would be telling victims of other forms of harassment that they should learn to cope with stress.
I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m trying to point out that I think you are being too dismissive of something that should be very concerning to you - if you want to grow the community of people who attend offline events.
How am I being dismissive? Where have I said that it should never happen? Where have I said that it should be tolerated? Where have I said that I wouldn’t try to change this in the future to make one’s experience much more enjoyable?
And you can keep quoting me all you want and putting words in my mouth. I did state that we all go through stress in all forms. Good and bad. There doesn’t have to be spectators around to feel stressed. In fact, I didn’t mention anything about spectators in that “quote”.
Why are we beating a dead horse? Neither of us was there to witness what was said and I did say that if it was inappropriate (the obscenities and insults) then the individual running pools (ref) should have intervened.
If you think I’m being dismissive, then I’m a little concerned for you, my friend. What more do you want from me? What do you want me to say and break down to you that we’re going to address this issue for future events so that the environment is welcoming to all? Hell… I stress this in the ■■■■ FB group and we remove people from the group for it! You’re talking to me like I’m new at this and don’t know how to grow a community and I’m not even touching your little harassment claim. Other “forms of harassment” is a big issue and we shouldn’t even discuss it here since we’re talking about a ■■■■ video game. A video. Game.
If there were complaints… why wasn’t the staff informed? We cannot fix anything if we don’t know what’s broken. Complaining about something over Twitter/internet doesn’t solve anything and just makes us look bad (the community) I’m glad I saw the notification after I was tagged, otherwise I wouldn’t have found out.
The sad part about all of this? The one complaint or concern that does reach my attention is pay, prizes, and rewards. So you can hit me up about monies/awards, but not about poor/inappropriate issues that occurred during the event. That’s an individual problem. Not a community problem.
I hate repeating myself. The issue has been heard and we’re going to rectify this by ensuring we add a disclaimer below the official rules.
Killer Instinct (2013) was an approved side tournament that did not make it this year as a featured title for Evo 2018. Therefore all side events were ran by the community. I just happened to help set it up. There isn’t one single side tournament that was ran by a TO from the Evo staff, other than KI and that’s because I love this ■■■■ game and its community.
You are correct. I do not know the difference between a bracket organizer and the TO. I kinda assumed that because KI was a side tournament it was ran by one guy.
I am sorry that I had my terminology wrong and you got dragged into something you weren’t even a part of to begin with.
I posted this after the fact, and was not looking for any kind of retribution. I cracked under the pressure and lost. I didn’t know the appropriate avenues to handle what happened, that was all on me. It shouldn’t have happened, but it did and that was that.
I mainly posted this so I can see what the reaction was going to be. If everyone was like “yeah that’s tournaments learn to deal.” Then I was gonna write off the community as not worth it. That wasn’t the case though. I was given suggestions and everyone let me know that it isn’t how things normally go down. It felt good to be reassured the community is good people and I just had a bad situation that I won’t let happen again.
In closing, I am sorry that you got pulled into an argument you weren’t even there for, but I appreciate you taking the time to care.
That is nice of him to apologize. Though I didn’t hear him yelling at anyone else. Maybe he did it to everyone his friend fought and I just wasn’t listening for it.
it kinda sucks to think they did it to everyone.
The match was in losers so I was thinking that their friend lost, and they didn’t want him to go 0-2 so they turned up the heat on his second opponent which just so happened to be me.
I immediately left after so I don’t know if it happened to the next person.
But like I said, it was a learning experience. Now I know.
Watched the video on twitter and it’s completely disgusting. They should have been asked to leave the venue and banned from returning. There’s no reason for anyone to act that way anywhere. And all this noise about how it’s people being “hype” is nonsense. There’s very few places in America that you wouldn’t get thrown out of for acting that way. Smh
Ive been to 5 tournaments. World Cup, AB6,7, and MSC twice. All 5 tournaments I seen ppl crowding an opponent and making him uncomfortable.
Twice I have personally had someone yelling from the crowd while I was on stage trying to throw me off my game. One of them was a known TJ player at World CUp trying to distract me so his friend didnt loose. Luckily I couldnt hear him, but my fiance was standing right next to him trying to film the match and didnt appreciate his attitude and words chosen. He didnt know who she was, but never the less it was disrespectful.
There is so much going on its hard for the TO or a pool organizer to do anything and most of them are all in the same clique…so if you are not part of that clique , they are not going to do anything about it.
It doesnt bother me to were Im not going to go to anther Event, Im no ■■■■■…but there are ppl that wont stand up and go back, and those ppl far out weigh the ones that will stand up for themselves.
Okay. Watched it and re-watched it like 20 times. I don’t see anything wrong with this. You guys made it sound to appear that theses players had no space (which was plentiful) and that he was being harassed and being called names.
It’s pretty much crowd commentating and all hype. Last game and it seems like it could have went either way, so I can understand the excitement. Now if the crowd was like when Mena played CJ Truth or Go1… that was pretty hostile.
We’re still going to discuss and implement crowd control in judge training though.
Also, I can tell who the players are from the voices. They have friends from the Marvel community (which is all hype) and it carried over, but believe it or not, this is actually pretty tamed. Maybe a bit unwanted and unwarranted, but we’ll see what we can do about that to make everyone feel more comfortable and welcome.
THose guys are super talking ■■■■ about the OP in that Twitter thread… they can deny it all they want…they knew what they were doing. Purposley trying to intimadate the player in a way that if anyone says anything they can deny it and say oh its just hype, thats how we roll, blah blah… IM not buying it.
I think there should be a rule where the players are blocked off with a movie line divider or something.
Well… I didn’t bother to read any follow up comments to that Twitter thread, but from the clip posted, it doesn’t seem that bad to me. Is there a FULL video?
We tried doing the “barrier” thing back in Evo 2010 or so and it didn’t help. Definitely there should have been more security for when players win on the stage as the only people allowed on stage are the players, TOs, and production crew. I’ve been watching Evo highlights and seeing friends bombard the stage when their buddy wins. It’s also not safe. This will be addressed as well.
We appreciate all the feedback, concerns, and issues being brought up to us.
Wow… well I guess that’s just the way it is then. I learned a long time ago that it’s perfectly possible for people to look at something and come away feeling very differently about what they saw. I would not ever feel comfortable anywhere with strangers yelling and swearing at me like this. And before the parade of people calling me a snowflake roll through telling me to “get hard” I will just say that I am typing this from a country where Americans are not supposed to travel and that has been experiencing civil unrest during my entire visit. I am not uncomfortable with strangers, crowds, noise or even the threat of violence. But if someone was standing behind me shouting and swearing at me like this at a video game tournament? Yes it would bother me. And it would bother me that everyone is just standing around letting them do it.
@RoTeNdO I certainly appreciate that you have been willing to pursue this. I know you guys are volunteers and I certainly appreciate that you do a lot of completely uncompensated work to build this and other communities in the FGC. I guess in this issue we will just have to agree to disagree.
If we are talking about a salty set, friendly set or similar I get it, but in tourney?
Geez! I get the excitment but screaming like that just next to the players it can bother some persons (lets compare fighters to tennis if you want, you NEED to concentrate the best you can.
Remember when this happened between Mena and Go1? Caba was screaming in the back along with other of his friends (I guess?).I get the hype, but it’s quite disrespectful and as a player totally annoying (headset for the win!! remember that when going to a tourney, if this happens and you can’t concentrate, it will help that you take your own headphones).
Meh. I’ve seen worse, but that doesn’t mean that was ok. I won’t go so far as to call it harassment or anything, but if you don’t get why for a first-time tourney goer that wouldn’t be a pleasant or enjoyable experience, then you’re being willfully blind. No one goes to their first tournament so a bunch of random people can scream “■■■■ him up!!!” at the top of their lungs 3 feet behind them.
I was going to post this as an example, but the match with Kbrad vs Wolfkrone is much worse and a better example to use.
I’m Evo staff. Not a volunteer. I’ve been up each morning since 0600 until venue closure. Hell, I even got up worked out, and ran the strip before then!
It’s okay @BigBadAndy, you’re inexperienced when it comes to events. Maybe even sports and other forms of competition. My point is, you think that was harassing? That was even tamer than middle school football! Again, if you can provide me a full video of them calling names and insults, I’d gladly take it all back because what I heard on the clip was all cheering for their friend. “Go Javi!” I can see where some things may be misconstrued as harassment towards the other player and agree that it’s a bit loud , but it’s because they’re close to the camera. No swearing at the opponent or anything and certainly no thread of violence.
It’s natural to feel discomfort in a new environment, but I can assure you that it isn’t like this at every event.
Sigh. I am not “inexperienced.” This is what I mean when I try to tell you you are being dismissive. When you say that, the message is “if you just knew what I know, you wouldn’t feel the way you do.” This is a well known fallacy and it’s also offensive and paternalistic. I have been to many sporting events and I played fighting games in arcades all through the 90s. I have been to dozens of middle school and high school football games - in Texas. I am not some wilting rose who just hasn’t been exposed to the world. In athletic settings, the screaming fans are more or less anonymous and are screaming from very far away. They are not one foot behind you. It is completely different.
I don’t really understand how you can say screaming “■■■■■! ■■■■■! ■■■■■” (B*tch - I’m not even allowed to type it on the forums because it is generally acknowledged to be offensive) is being hype and supporting your friend. So the burden of responsibility is on the player to turn around and ask “when you scream b@tch over and over again in my ear, am I the b@tch, is my character the b@tch or do you just like yelling b@tch?” If it was a female player would you see it differently? What offensive words are they allowed to scream and which ones are not okay? What would they actually have to do for it to be considered harassment?
I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because they have said the intention was not to harass the player. But at some point it doesn’t matter. The “aw shucks, we didn’t mean anything by it” excuse has long ago been discarded as an excuse for socially unacceptable behavior. The excuse “that’s just how we do it where I’m from” has been thoroughly refuted for all kinds of cases.
There isn’t a difference. I’ve played on the field, in a stadium full of thousands of people full of opposing fans, and believe me the volume and decibel levels of thousands, plus the bands, makes 7-10 people around you seem like a whisper.
I’ve watched the video like 30+ times now. They are nowhere near the players or “in my ear”. The audio track is deceptive, but I’m not dismissing that it was a bit rowdy. The camera was in front of those supporters and picking up the voices. They weren’t calling the player(s) any names either. I’m not taking sides, but it’s clear on the video. They are not in either of the player’s ears, are behind the camera guy, and the mic is picking up all the audio from the crowd because they’re directly behind him (pretty damn good camera and mic I might add. I bet it’s a Samsung)
Bottom line. People are going to get excited about something they’re passionate about. It’s a fighting game for one thing. Two, they’re supporting their friend who has been working hard ( apparently) to make it that far.
Did you watch the character reveals for Evo? SFV/Tekken/etc People went ape ■■■■ and no one was fighting! You cannot control enthusiasm or restrict it. If you want to try and police that at the next major you attend, go right ahead and at the end of the day, tell me how that worked out for you, pal.
I don’t know what else to say to you. I couldn’t disagree with you more about literally every sentence you just posted. So I’m not going to try. As if people yelling over character reveals was somehow the same as people swearing at you while you’re trying to play…
But to me, the message here is that it is considered perfectly acceptable by the FGC for strangers to yell and swear at you while you’re trying to play in a tournament and if you complain then you’re just being a ■■■■■. If I ever thought I might like to participate in an offline event, I sure as hell won’t now.
You know good and well character reveal screaming isn’t the same as 4 people shouting obscenities behind you as you play Rotendo. Those aren’t remotely analogous
I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s difficult (maybe even impossible) to completely police “hype” or support from a player’s friends. It’s not a bright line, and there’s a fair amount of nuance/disagreement about what constitutes acceptability within that realm. What is a bright line is that the TC said the experience was uncomfortable enough to the point that absent encouragement, he would never attend another KI event. And he’s not the only new person who would have felt that way.
People’s intentions are largely irrelevant in any given situation. All that matters is the results and takeaway from other participants in that interaction. Not everyone thinks shouting and cursing behind them while playing is fun. Heck, I’m one of them. I put up with it to play the game I love - plenty of other people do not and will not.
