Same way Wulf can do Opener > Auto-Double > Auto-Double > Auto-Double > Otto-Dubble > Odd-o-doubel > oggarflarg > !@#$@#ERF > Ender.
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I absolutely hate it when your shadow does thisâŠyou son of a â â â â â â ! LOL
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Same with Jago, Omen, TJ, and Sadira in instinct mode.
Best way to not get broken is to do something your opponent isnât expecting, since most of the time we just see the typical Opener>Auto>Linker>Auto>Linker>Auto>Ender sort of combos.
Doing combos that are unique to your character can really mess with people. Even Jagoâs Around the World, while considered pretty easy to break, can be used to confuse someone who is just getting into the game.
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My shadow is an absolute arsehole, hehehe 
yesâŠyes he is. ha ha
you used to do this weird manual string, that was very delayed⊠plus that hand clap move he does. i hated that stringâŠvery tough to defend.
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Guys I am an Orchid player that also mains Thunder, Fulgore and Maya. I can manual any strength 90% of the time. What this post was intended to do was to come up with ideas of less breakers and more combos. Not a rant about this and that or that I hate the way this game works. I donât hate this game at all, in fact itâs the only game I play atm. I just wish there was a bit less breaker opportunities so that we have a smoother combo system. Obviously there are many cons to this but I think that there are ways to lessen breakers.
I think the main point so far (for me, at least) though has been that there really hasnât been a worthwhile reason presented as to WHY the number of, or ability to successfully execute breakers would be a good thing for KI in the long run.
I brought up Counter Breakers because it is a mechanic intended to punish those who break too often, or in patterns. Either way, both players are taking a risk.
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The OP almost reads like theyâre inferring that KI would be more entertaining to watch on-stream if less breakers were involved⊠but I could be wrong.
The main goal of Killer Instinct is constant 2 way interaction. If we take away opportunities to break combos, that goes against the core design principle of the game.
The combo system itself is incredibly smooth. Combos are easy to do and inputs read really well compared to other fighting games Iâve played. If anything, the constant threat of a combo breaker is what keeps the game going. If something in the combo is completely unbreakable outside of certain circumstances, it negates gameplay opportunities for the recipient of the combo, again going against the very core element DH/IG/MS have strived to achieve.
but that would take away the excitement for when they actualy manage to make a long combo. And also the matches would be shorter and less back and forth.
I wish this was true. Iâve been trying for a long time and I donât think itâs working, lol. I even have likened the game to poker a lot; itâs another game where you need to make reads with imperfect information but strong hunches, which has been greatly strengthened by the advent of online poker that lets us explore the problem space at 100,000x the rate of casino poker, and (surprise surprise!) weâve learned that taking more risks and playing aggressively is considerably stronger than passive âscaredâ play. Originally, it was just a few âonline wackosâ that seemed to be doing way better than the expected line, and then we realized that their strategy is actually pretty sound. Now the entire poker world plays aggressively (if you donât, you get run the heck over) and the game is no less stable or filled with variance, but definitely much more interesting.
If only people would understand that KI is the same way.
Taking the counter breaker risk is worth more than the sum of its parts. Looking only at the negative side of your guess, even if youâre 80% sure it will work out, is not the optimal way to play.
I think itâs kind of crazy that people will do wind kick (blocked) and then risk a DP, but these same people are scared to counter break. The DP is considerably riskier and leads to less damage, and there are ways for the defense to handle it with delayed button + blocking OSes, and you open yourself up for a full punish. Counter breakers catch all break attempts (there are no OSes to save you), do 50%+ immediate damage and strong mental damage, and are no more or less based on noticing opponent patterns than trying to DP someone who presses buttons. But rather than look at the numbers, most people will try to play with emotion. In fighting games, science beats emotion every time.
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I agree that combo breakers happen way too often in the gameâŠbut Iâm not sure how they could change that in the current system other than simply making a few more things unbreakable, which would probably just piss more people off.
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Still trying to understand why some people feel that breakers should be mitigated. I see âthereâs too manyâ but not a lot of âthereâs too many becauseâŠâ.
Honestly, Iâd say thereâs more of a chance of another type of breaker being implemented in S3 than there is of an existing type of breaker being nixed/nerfed.
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I feel as breakers are fine.
before go around changing core mechanics we should look at this:
Man, this just keeps coming up these days, doesnât it? People seemingly want less combo-breakers or the more popularly used âguess breakersâ citing older KI being harder to use breakers in or the lack of skill required etc. I dunno, I like the two way mechanic, even if guess breaking is an intended or unintended consequence.
I also read that higher level players or pro players arenât using counter breakers because theyâre too risky. I mentioned this in another thread and got zero replies on it, so Iâll throw the idea out there again and if itâs utter garbage, no problem. Again, just throwing the idea out there:
What if instead of leaving you wide open for an attack, a whiffed counter breaker actually did a move / animation that simply returned both character to a neutral position with some distance? Like maybe Orchid does a back flip kick and by the time she lands and the opponent lands, youâre both back at a neutral state where no one has an advantage?
It doesnât cash out damage, of course. Maybe the white damage is reduced by half as a penalty for whiffing a counter breaker, but that seems like a much more affordable penalty than a dropped combo + open for opponentâs attack. This would just be dropped combo + halved white damage. I mean, if you opened the opponent up again quickly, youâd be looking at a higher ender level, so in a way, it still favors offense without reducing an opponentâs ability to break a combo as some seem to be proposing.
If doing this allowed pro players to feel safer using the best weapon in the game for countering combo breakers, would something like this make sense, or am I way off base here? Perhaps if it favors the offense too much, instead of half white damage, a whiffed counter breaker drops a combo and opponentâs white damage is completely refilled?
this defeats the entire risk of using a Counter Breaker, and if weâre going to do that, we might as well remove all breaking, as there needs to be risk on both the offensive and defensive end of things.
The problem isnât the breaking/counter breaking mechanics, itâs the player mindset. Theyâre too stuck in their âIâm attacking and shouldnât have to take risks, but youâre gaining too much from your risksâ way of thinking. When I play with my friends or against random people online, Counter Breakers happen, and are super impactful. I donât stay away from them simply because I might miss. KI has two way interaction, and everything about the combo system has built in risk. Thatâs why itâs different from SF or MK, and needs to remain so.
Why does this defeat the whole risk of using a counter breaker?
The risk for doing the counter breaker is that youâre choosing to drop your combo for the promise of landing the counter breaker. You sacrifice the rest of your current combo to thwart a defensive maneuver.
If it doesnât land though, you drop your combo and you donât cash out the damage you were able to do. Sure, if itâs a five hit combo, that might not be a huge deal depending on where youâre at in the match, but what if itâs a third of someoneâs life bar that youâre essentially giving back to them if the counter breaker whiffs? Is that not risky enough? Plus, you lose some of the white damage that you did (or all, as I proposed at the end of my post).
I donât see how that harms the two way interaction. If anything, it encourages the attacker to try and counter break more while at the same time not hindering the defender from combo breaking. If anything, Iâd assume that it might help that mind game between two opponents trying to read one another and figure out when theyâll use a breaker both on defense and offense, at least at higher levels.
Some people have proposed making it harder to combo break and Iâm not a fan of that idea at all. I want to see the two way interaction preserved.
I agree that itâs a mindset issue to some extent, but if pro players donât feel that the risk/reward favors them enough to counter break as it is, maybe thatâs a clue that thereâs a bit too much risk involved as it stands?
Mind you, Iâm not advocating for this idea. I know it sounds like I am (I proposed it after all), but Iâm just trying to think of something that would help people that seem slightly resistant use the tools that are already in the game. I love combo breaking as it is currently and donât want to see that aspect sacrificed just so someone can feel like they earned the reward to hit me with a full combo just because they opened me up. I enjoy that uniquely KI mechanic and donât want to see it changed.
whiffing a counter breaker is what adds the real risk to attempting one in the first place. Itâs the equivalent to getting locked out from missing a combo breaker - you mistimed or misread the opportunity, and are now open to taking damage from it. Resetting to neutral and clearing potential damage is a risk, but only slightly, as the current way a whiff works swings the balance more to the defenderâs favor. Adding space between the characters also helps the attacker avoid some strike backs, and actively hurts characters who arenât strong getting in, and actively helps zoner characters.
The mindset is what needs to change, period. Whiffing a Counter may leave you open, but thatâs the risk you are REQUIRED to take. Same as screwing up a Combo Breaker leaves you wide open to a longer, heavier combo. The fact that they are pro players means they understand the game, but it doesnât mean their thinking is correct on everything.
Risk/Reward is the backbone of KI, and the defender and attacker both need equal risks, which is what they have now.
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Dropping your combo is NOT a risk. Thatâs simply forgoing an advantage, but thereâs no real penalty involved with that in itself. Itâs the delay after the whiffed counter-breaker where you canât do anything thatâs the real risk as it gives your opponent a chance to counter-attack.