Idea for Wulf instinct

Characters Sabrewulf
1

So after reading thoughts on Sabrewulf’s instinct damage nerf, I thought about a potential active buff to keep things interesting. What if Instinct made it so that each consecutive rabid double dealt a small amount of increased damage?

Currently, on a counter breaker lockout you can do just about the same combo damage by not using rabid doubles. This could encourage people to use the combo trait, similar to Riptor getting a buff to primal linkers. It might also encourage players to use the feral cancels in a combo to get lockouts and go to town with the rabid doubles.

What are peoples thoughts? Can’t wait to play Sabrewulf in s3 and for all we know he is still OP anyway, but this could still make his gameplay a little more interesting at all levels.

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The nerf to his feral cancels was kinda implicitly a damage nerf. I’m not sure you can give him more damage without making him pay for it somehow, or taking something away.

I’m sure IG has seent he casual outcry about feral cancels being too “pro” for them to get any enjoyment out of, though. (ftr, I’'m hoping that outcry gets attenuated a little by extra dojo resources in season 3 at some point, so that casual Wulf players can more easily appreciate the benefits of being able to cancel out of disadvantage when their stuff gets blocked.)

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I do agree that giving him a bonus for rabid doubles during instinct sounds like a good idea. What if each rabid double would give him a chip damage boost. The boost could last a short amount of time and each double would increase the timer.

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Yeah, I wouldn’t implement this change before getting a chance to actually see how Wulf competes in S3. But it’s something to think about later on down the line if they want to add a little something extra. It wouldn’t be the first time that a character was nerfed and then tweaked with a little buff later on (hype beam, anyone?)

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5

I don’t see how even more damage to mashing HK or HP on a lockout would make anything more interesting, honestly ^^’

He doesn’t need any more dmg, he’s a beast as he is. His instinct nerfs were needed, and while they were significant, especially the time increase for the cooldown of FC’s, the buffs to his neutral game more than make up for it, IMO. Both the dive kick and the flip outs as well as the stagger on s.HK are amazing.

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What if, only while instinct is active of course, you could chain different strength rabid doubles? HP/HK rabid’s into MP/MK rabid’s into LP/LK rabid’s. Or MP/MK into HP/HK into MP/MK again then into LP/LK, and so on. No real strength pattern to follow, just rabid double after rabid double. I think this would allow Wulf to really dish out the damage while in instinct, but make it just as difficult to combo break as any other normal combo.

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would this not just be Sadira in instinct mode but with each double getting faster and faster? That sounds like it would be hard to deal with.

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Not overly familiar with Sadira (don’t play her), so I’d have to take your word for it. Hard to say, really.

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I heard Wulf was getting a “buff” rumor?

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I don’t think his instinct is bad by any means. I’ve been saying this since they changed it for season 2. From a utilitarian perspective, feral cancels are useful. However, from the perspective of a lower level player, they don’t meet two of the three criteria.

Is it useful? Yes. Check.

Is it straight forward? No. It’s not an easy move to be good with, and while that would be fine for many ideas, I don’t think it’s fine for an instinct move specifically.

Is it fun? No. It’s a workers move. There’s no flash, no style, no feeling of being more powerful just because you can cancel out of something that’s unsafe, even if the individual act of doing so when needed is again, a useful thing to have.

I liked Wulf’s season one instinct because it felt like it completed him. Much like high damage season one Thunder, who got crazy mobility off of his instinct, high mobility Wulf got crazy good damage which made hulking out and howling and then laying in to the opponent feel that much cooler. Now, he hulks out and howls and gains the ability to cancel unsafe moves.

I’m sorry, but though I think it’s useful, it’s just not compelling and for many players, its utility is more or less wasted. I’m not against high level concepts on principal, not by any stretch, but any concept, regardless of ability level needed, should have some degree of both accessibility and fun when you’re talking about something as basic as instinct mode.

Jago can throw two fireballs and regain health.
Glacius gets armor, mobile liquidize and homing puddle punch.
Thunder gets crazy mobility.
Sadira gets webs.
Orchid gets firecats.
Spinal gets skulls, wall skulls and reabsorb skulls
Fulgore gets high speed meter, meter slowing moves don’t slow it down, and he gets to give himself meter using HP+HK
Shago gets dark tether and annihilation
TJ gets speed boost and last breath
Maya gets returning daggers
Kan Ra gets permanent sand trap
Riptor gets full speed run and huge range on tail and fire
Omen gets an extra projectile and shadow meter lockout
Aganos gets unlimited clubs
Hisako gets permanent wrath meter, and counters catch high and low
Cinder gets permanent fired up state
ARIA gets all of her special moves from all forms
Kim Wu gets auto generate dragons and dragon cannons
Tusk gets to cancel MP & HP in to specials and cancel a special into another special
Arbiter gets a regenerating shield and a parry
Rash gets a controllable speeder bike that staggers on the ground and recaps airborne opponents
Mira gets infinite air dash, an auto homing bat and vicious shroud
Gargos gets stone skin and eruption
Raam obscures the screen and does continuous, unavoidable potential damage
Eyedol gets access to both forms, powered up versions of his specials and instinct refill

Why did I bother to type all of those out when you know them already? I just wanted to give people the full (well somewhat full) list to compare to what Sabrewulf has: Chip damage with normals and feral cancel (which takes longer to recover from in season 3).

Even more passive instincts, or instincts that don’t appear to come with godlike powers on the surface, like Fulgore’s, Maya’s, TJ’s, Kan Ra’s and Riptor’s feel like game changers in the hands of players with ANY skill level.

They can look at what Fulgore gets to do with his meter and they can figure out what that unlocks for them. They know how helpful it is to have daggers that return to Maya and they can figure out what to do with that and what fun they can have and it doesn’t take a high level player to cancel special moves in to special moves with Tusk and to see how useful (and fun) that is.

Again, feral cancel is NOT a bad move. But when you compare it to everything the characters above have, and you remember that feral cancel isn’t the most casual friendly move, which makes it rather difficult for many players to get a whole lot out of, it stops being a question of “can we train people up to get the most out of this move” and it starts being “maybe this isn’t the best move for instinct specifically, especially for a character whose movelist is otherwise rather straight forward.”

Of course, Wulf doesn’t have to be a lower level player’s dream and there’s tons of complexity hidden below the surface. No question. But to me, an instinct move should be a rather surface level move. It should be easy to see not only what the benefit is, but how to apply that benefit and perhaps maximize it to your advantage.

I’m just not convinced that most lower level players can look at feral cancel and do that to any great extent, and if they can, again… Popping instinct should either lead to immediate fun new moves or immediate fun ways that it can be applied to the character. Barraging opponents with fireballs with Jago is fun, trapping opponents in a series of webs with Sadira or using them in juggles is fun, doing all the crazy stuff with a permanently fired up Cinder, ulimited sand Kan Ra or a Hisako with full wrath meter is fun.

So yeah, @developers I’d love it if you guys took another crack at Wulf’s instinct. I’m not trying to rant or sound angry and I don’t mean to insult any of you in any way. Just hoping you’ll consider something that’s a little easier to utilize to a full extent and that makes Wulf a more fun character to use overall. I’d still love to get another special move or two and maybe some flash in his move set that seems kinda lacking, but now I’m really sounding like a broken record. My apologies. :slight_smile:

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@Iago407

Well man, I usually agree with what you say here, but in this case I have to be honest in say I don’t agree that Sabrewulf’s instinct must be touched.

I must say that I’m one of the lowest level player you gonna find around, because yeah I’m a crap in fighting game at all (still “trying” to play KI because it’s fun and I love my fellow addicted dog), but at the same time I must say that move is not that hard to do. I can’t enjoy its best because I’m freaking terrible in this game, but anyway I can do some good stuff with it.

In case of comparation, when I play Orchid with her supposed “awesome fire cats”, I hardly remmember I have it to use, so that’s not that useful as it was supposed to be as well.

In my opinion, Feral Cancels fits perfectly in his gameplay and is a cool move, I mean both: useful (because yeah it’s freaking useful) and aesthetically (because it fits with his style while putting his hands on the floor with a small feral scream).

I would say the major thing I miss in his instinct is the extra damage.

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12

It’s cool, we don’t have to agree on everything! :slight_smile: No problem.

I was just trying to give my personal opinion and while I shouldn’t extrapolate that to others, I look at my skill level after three years and while I know how to use feral cancels, using them isn’t fun or fulfilling (in the context of the game obviously) or all that exciting, and while it’s a game changer with several applications (like any other instinct), I still find it a tad esoteric and I just don’t think it’s something everyone could fully utilize and take advantage of, so it makes me wonder if he could get something else that more people could take advantage of, perhaps.

Still, it doesn’t have to be an either / or scenario. I have no desire to stick it to high level players or people that really enjoy this move.

Maybe they could get rid of the normal chip damage and replace it with something that’s more easily applicable, more obvious in its benefits and more fun (while still being balanced, of course). Some off the top of my head suggestions:

Maybe he gets a damage boost on all of his enders and there’s an accompanying visual effect, like a green Wulf outline around him that mimics the move.

Or perhaps he gets a 4th ender that’s a ground bounce that he can dunk off of.

Perhaps he gains a tiny chunk of potential health back when he dashes through someone and that has a visual effect on it linked to him glowing green.

Or maybe his ragged edge has a green echo effect on it and it goes further and does more damage.

Or maybe there’s an electricity effect between Wulf and the opponent whenever he knocks them in to the air and it stays there as long as he can keep them in the air and he’s slowly siphoning shadow meter until they hit the ground.

Maybe using his taunt gives him a damage boost up to three times which would equate to about 80% of his season one Instinct damage and he gets visual queues to indicate how much his damage bonus is.

Maybe he gets some sort manual projectile that he can tack on to his enders, like he throws out a green outline of himself that can do ragged edge or uppercut, but it costs a sliver of instinct meter with each use and can only be used once after an ender. Or maybe he just gets to use these normally as well, but it costs a quarter stock of shadow meter.

Maybe he gets two more options off of run, like the ability stop and growl and a forward flipping slash that hits overhead and is an opener, but can be held to go in to overpower.

The possibilities are limitless. I’m sure some of these are bad or even terrible, maybe they’d be a nightmare to balance. But they’re all off the top of my head for the most part and they all seem like they’d be easy to use with obvious applications, so people with no idea how or desire to take full advantage of feral cancel could have something fun to use, and for those that do use feral cancel, maybe it’s a tool that pushes Wulf back up tier lists a bit. Not saying he needs it, but I don’t think he’s in a position where giving him a new toy in instinct would push him in to OP territory provided its balanced.

Anyways, like I said, just my two cents. I didn’t want to make a vague request without putting any actual ideas out there, so sorry if those all look like garbage lol. Just trying to make Wulf a bit more fresh and fun. I’ve been using him for three years now, and compared to IGs designs, it just feels like they could do a good deal more with him. Hell, that last suggestion for more moves off of run? I’d love to see those two options added in without needing instinct. I’m sure I’m in the minority though, which is fine. :slight_smile:

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There are limitless possibilites indeed, but of everything you listed, I much rather have feral cancels. They are an amazing move, really. I don’t think wulf needs any extra tools, he’s in a great place right now, IMO.