Idea for new situational shadow move

#1

A new situational move for Omen in which he can activate a shadow orda shield while air-borne.

Good idea? Bad idea? Explain why. @TheKeits

#2

Omen needs no buffs.

#3

Maybe I didn’t word it correctly, as it probably isn’t a buff, my bad.

#4

It just seems unnecessary. Omen can already quicken his descent with the airborne backdash, he has an insanely damaging j.HK, and his fireballs don’t get away when he gets hit. Omen is already considerably stronger than most of the cast in the air, so why should he get a tool that makes him stronger than he needs to be?

3 Likes
#5

Would it make him stronger? It’s probably just me but I don’t see how it would buff him.

1 Like
#6

I’m sorry, what? Giving him a new move isn’t a buff? Giving him access to one of his most valuable grounded tools while in the air isn’t a buff? Giving him access to a shield of projectiles while in the air that gets buffed both by subsequent casts AND by instinct, isn’t a buff?

This could make him Pre-Patch Eyedol levels of safe in the air, stuffing anti-air attempts or giving him plenty of time to pressure when he lands, because even if you hit him move those fireballs aren’t going away. His grounded version can be stuffed on start up if you use a projectile invisible shadow DURING the freeze, or if you’re in mid attack when he’s about to use it. Take away the danger of being hit by a grounded attack entirely, and unless you’re already throwing out a DP he gets to use it for free. It would take Omen from being a very high tier character and shoot him up to the top.

And the worst part is, if you nerf it make it bad or even situational, there’s no point to adding it in the first place. Why spend meter on that instead of Shadow Form? Or just use the grounded version?

If it’s got potential to shoot him into overpowered territory, and/or it’s not going to be a valuable addition to his toolset, there’s no way it’s getting in.

5 Likes
#7

Id rather have the ability to continue to throw Rahsakkukens immediately after a throw. Currently that change has really made Omens neutral game unbalanced. I dont care what the typical guys that DONT PLAY OMEN say… he needs to be able to throw his Rashakukens after throw!

But if I had to choose to change LIGHT Orda shield it would be so that it doesnt go over your opponents head in an arch. It needs to have a hit box that cover everything inside the Orda shield area.

Cool idea though never the less.

2 Likes
#8

Yeah, I’m also confused how giving a character a good new move without introducing any downsides could be anything but a buff.

If you think the only way for a person’s thoughts on the game to be valid is if they main the character they’re talking about, you’re making it impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you.

4 Likes
#9

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1 Like
#11

@Fwufikins Pretty much nailed it. Strict buff to his kit, for no discernable reason. Pushes deep into pre-patch Eyedol territory, with a bit of extra ambiguity on the crossup-or-not potential.

@FallofSeraphs76 It is virtually impossible to engage in any sort of discussion with your sort… but I’ll try. I’ve seen your outcry for post-throw Rasha all over the place, and I think there’s something I’m not understanding. When you say “throw Rasha after throw” do you mean cancel the throw’s recovery into meterless Rasha, or that the new difference in recovery frames makes midscreen Rasha-after-throw not as good as before?

Have you tried taking any action after a midscreen throw OTHER than Rasha? Have you tried not relying so heavily on mid-screen throw? It’s the way you emphasize the importance of this “tech,” it seems sorta like a one-trick-pony problem. Considering his pressure and screen control, I doubt very much that he “needs” post-throw Rasha.

And, to be sure, you should probably care what “typical folks that DON’T PLAY OMEN” think, as character loyalists will often downplay their character’s strength because they personally want free wins. I tend to doubt the objectivity of character loyalists for those very reasons, until they prove otherwise. Considering [lately] you cry a lot about Omen getting nerfed too hard, I would say this is precisely the case, and your input need not be regarded - but, as a courtesy, I’ll extend you some benefit-of-doubt and a listening ear. Can you explain your position coherently and objectively?

#12

Your sort? Seriously? I always post with respect to the OP and then here comes the opinonpolice that try to make it all about my post instead of the OPs. But here we go…

Both… you can no longer Rashakuken until the 35 frame recovery? of the throw has ended. Therefor the throw is useless midscreen as it has no advantage for Omen. A normal throw give the thrower some sort of hard knockdown type of advantage. Omen cant do anything until both players have recovered and are back to a neutral stand off.

As on Omen player it is my opinion that this change sucks…nothing more.

Id rather have it revert to the old way then add an Air Orda shield move. Since that is what we are discussing here in the OP…nothing more.

3 Likes
#13

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#14

He can still do shadow rasha or shadow orda. :confused:

2 Likes
#15

Yes he can… you are correct. And thats a good thing! And the new throw recovery isnt terrible. But in this OP, my post was strictly that I feel Omen DOES NOT NEED A BUFF or NEW MOVE and its my opinion that Id would personally rather have the ability to throw Rashakukens immediately after the throw as before. thats it. Not sure why everyone is on my case over that.

#16

I’m not on your case about it. I can understand where you’re coming from, though I think his throw game is fine. My issue was with the attitude of your post that implied that you have to be an omen player to have any kind of valid opinion about omen. That’s never going to be something that allows for a healthy dicussion.

2 Likes
#17

Thanks…but I didnt have an attitude. What Im trying to say to @VladKravich is that there are a handful of people on here that like to chime in and start an argument based on paper stats and not off of the feel and true play of the character.

Vlad plays Omen and he has an idea.
I play Omen and I have an idea.

We arent crying to make the Devs change it… we are just talking, nothing more…we dont expect anything to change…at least I dont. But I can state what I do and dont like without being crucified for it.

But some come on here and try to Lynch mob us becasue we have ideas and discussion about our mains. We dont want to argue over it.

1 Like
#18

[[EDIT: You got a point, big fella. Ought not to point at the sling, lest ye take note of glass houses. We should all be a little more patient and a bit less dismissive of one another. Disrespect does not a strong community make.]]

A normal throw provides an advantage midscreen, in most cases. Omen’s is a rare case that allows a combo in the corner. So, this throw is much better in the corner than midscreen. Midscreen, you wind up hella far at like +3 or something. That [seems] fair [to me] considering we can combo off of it in the corner, and it moves them toward the corner - the reward is proportional to it’s positioning. It’s not like he’s punishable after a throw midscreen, or even disadvantaged. He just doesn’t have the freedom to set up whatever the hell he wants, as a tradeoff for how bloody good the throw is in the corner. He can still spend a bar on post-throw pressure/safety midscreen.

“Everyone” is “on your case” about it because you make such a big deal out of it. Mountains from molehills, y’know. Omen is a monster, and not having huge advantage from a move when used outside of it’s ideal positioning isn’t that big a deal. I guarantee the character isn’t suffering immensely from this change.

1 Like
#19

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#20

@VladKravich… Ok so I think what you are trying to say is ACTIVATE the move airborne. The move doesnt change, you can still activate it on the ground and then jump and have the shield surround you as the picture in the OP represents.

But the ability to activate mid jump?

Im not sure how that would work as far as how it animates and effects his post jump animation…but I understand now what you are getting at.

Its not a new move or a buff so to speak. Its an optional activation addition.
Exactly what they did with Hisako’s move (DOnt know the correct name of the move)

I guess it could be a cool addition… but as far as balance goes currently I dont think they would make this change without taking something away. So in that respect…would it still be worth it?

Great idea though… keep em coming and keep giving them hell with OMEN!

1 Like
#22

It is definitely a buff, though. It is an additional, optional, activation of a move. If it came with no changes, it would strictly be a buff, because it is “something that makes the character better”. If it had a compensatory cost (probably Turbulence), it may be a burf, or if it’s useless (very unlikely) it would be a nerf. But probably a buff. Just sayin’.

@VladKravich The scary parts hide largely in the details of proposal. How does activation work, and how does it affect/interact with EX Rasha? Can you cancel air buttons into it? Can you press buttons afterward? What sorts of new opportunities would such a tool provide?

By my reckoning, the implications are over-the-top OMG WTF IS HAPPENING TO ME!? terrifying. If it’s cancellable, you can make every glide or Phasing mixup safe and just keep on for days. Just the ability to refresh Orda off of j.MP seems very very scary. Pushing buttons afterward let’s every jump trade a bar for commitment, especially if it’s TK’ble. And then sweet Christmas what opportunities do TK Air Orda offer!?

Now, if we’re talking something for the SL Omen mini-bosses… I like the way you think. Something for the human playerbase… probably inherently broken, and would likely require too much adjustment to the rest of Omen to make it “fair” or “balanced”. I’m totally certain that Turbulence would automatically have to go, but that would only be the beginning. It’s just… too mighty for mortals…