Can you explain exactly what is different about Counter Breakers in S3, when compared to S2?
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Do you often âwin the neutralâ and make âall the right readsâ without obtaining a âcombo openingâ?
As opposed to every combo yielding 50% uncontested? What is the ârisky chicken combo gameâ? Specifically, what is the risk for the attacker (aside from failed counterbreak)? Attackers still get damage out of broken combos, then reset to more-or-less neutral. I see no artificially imposed risk, unless youâre implying that every combo should contain a counterbreak attempt, which is silly. I donât think thatâs what youâre saying, I just donât understand what youâre saying.
How does one find a âcombo openingâ for âyolo timeâ without exerting their âfundamentalsâ and winning the âneutralâ?
A counterbreak is a catch-counter for combo breaks. If there is no combo break to catch, there is no counterbreak. If your counterbreak is late, it doesnât work. It seems pretty straightforward to me. If your opponent locks out before you counterbreak, then you may have âhad the right readâ but you did NOT execute on that read properly. In order to reap the rewards of a solid read, you must also be able to execute on it.
If Kim is late on her parry, she eats damage. If you are late on an AA, you eat damage. If you mistime a shimmy button and get thrown, you eat the damage. In all of these cases, you may have known an attack was coming, but you failed to execute, and ate damage as a result - because the game doesnât stop at the read, and the game canât tap into your brain and know that you had the read, and thus magically execute FOR you. The ârewardâ is the result of âmaking the correct readâ AND executing correctly. For a counterbreak, you must execute BEFORE they break. This window is hella variable, and favors the defender (thus the immense reward for a correct counterbreak), so it is certainly a more difficult read to make.
Does anyone actually think that an action that can yield 45-90% (depending on character) shouldnât bear the risk of a full combo punish if failed to execute correctly?
Itâs not like the punish combo canât be broken (most of the time, anyway).
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Two wordsâŠ
OperatorâŠerror.
Simply to play devilâs advocate, a counter with no startup that doesnât require a non-blocking input would not come out if it was done lateâthe player would be in blockstun and they could not execute it.
I donât think this comparison makes the argument that counterbreakers arenât working in a fair way any more compelling, though. My thoughts on it are simpleâthe way the system works is absolutely fine, but Iâm always open to see how things would be different if the system was tweaked. Personally though I think the idea of counterbreakers not coming out in lockouts has way more potential to be a bad thing than a good one. I can think of ways to abuse that.
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Fair enough. Late parry is a bad example.
Timing.
What timing?
The window for CB is much tighter than it was in Season 2. Or at least it feels that way because now it is the attackers job to time the CB before the opponent hits the command.
Itâs fine, I donât argue with the principle as it makes sense. But rollback, lag and even inferior display monitors leave the attacker CB on a Lock-Out or even a failed Breaker.
When me and Davy0 fought and streamed, you could hear the commentators mentioned that they heard a CB on my end, but I never got it and got broken. I was playing on my good monitor then.
Things like that cause games sometimes so I just choose to stop CB since I am not rewarded fairly.
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Yeah Iâve gotten that. I was just too late.
I donât recall in any patch notes that Counter breaker timing was changed other then the buffer windows changing.
Theres your answer. There are many posts and threads that have been made discussing the changes, donât you think having to state the obvious for the nth time is redundant? Or was this just a passive aggressive rhetorical question to dismiss the real topic of the post.
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That doesnât exist anymoreâŠthis was changed a long time agoâŠ
PlusâŠdid you even read the whole thing? Because I donât think you didâŠ
Clearly you didnât actually read the post you linked as it states that only the juggle lockout change is new to season 3. And even then they fixed most of that already.
Well that was a bug fix more then anything. Not really a new feature.
Hasnât there been a change at some point to make it so that breakers can happen during hit-stun frames?
There are two remaining changes from S2.
-
You can timing lockout during juggles. Coupled with the previous existing system of unable to counter break startup of manuals, counter breaking during the startup of juggle moves cannot be done. (In S2, if someone tried to break during the startup of a manual in your juggle, and you counter broke, you would also fail, but it would look like they didnât try to break as opposed to a lockout symbol popping up first)
-
Actions played during manual hitstop are not queued up and played back at the same time after hitstop ends. This is a non-issue except for manual hits with massive amounts of hitstop, like a recapture.
Those are the only things different. If people are thinking that counter breakers in traditional grounded combos are different, theyâre mistaken. There is plenty of video evidence of failed counter breakers in S1 and S2 that have failed in the same way that the community is upset about now.
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I just wanted to know if you understood how little changed before engaging a discussion about it. Infilâs post above is what I was looking for from you.
In the overwhelming majority of situations, nothing has changed at all. (Other than a bunch of people telling you that something has changed, I guess)
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The queuing of actions during hit-stop was an inconsistency which is fair to change imo.
But could a reasonable amount of the apparent frustration people are feeling be due to the lockout appearing animation? The reason for a botched counter to not appear immediately is understandably frustrating
Lockouts show up starting on the 1st frame now, as of a few patches ago. It was something that was a problem since S3 launch, yes, but they did fix it and it is no longer in the game.
Here is proof:
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ah thanks, I donât remember seeing that as a change, but good to know its fixed
Yep, I complained about it in two separate threads (one of them being the counter breaker expose thread), then when they fixed it, they didnât even post it in the patch notes. It was a big deal but they didnât publicize the fix for reasons I donât understand.
You can see itâs different when you play, if youâre sensitive to this type of thing, but itâs understandable why people donât know itâs fixed.
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