How would you improve KI's gameplay going forward?

[Iago407]

@JEFFRON27

if this is a sign that the player base is bigger do we consider this a good thing? or a bad thing? or is this just a result that comes with it.

Honestly, I think it’s just par for the course regardless of the size of the player base. I’d have to think that when a game has been around for three years, that by now, any changes, especially if we’re talking characters or mechanics or thing that veer away from what’s been done traditionally (such as character trailers, characters all getting their own stages, etc) will be met with resistance. Hell, remember the reaction to the level 4 ender animation when that was first introduced? How fast did they have that toggle announcement? Personally, I always have that animation turned on lol.

I don’t know if it’s just that people become to used to things that they forget that this is a constantly evolving platform of a game, or if people just cycle in, find out stuff is changing, and then cycle out after X number of changes. Tough to say.

@JEFFRON27

Actually I remember people complaining about S2 up the wazoo but I mostly just remember things like Fulgore Nerfs, people complaining about Maya, People complaining about Omen and how he looks, people complaining about Cinder, Wulf changes, Sadira changes, etc, etc. Lol

Exactly. Kinda seems like they’ve been trying to do right by us for a long time now.

@JEFFRON27

S2 was when all three of my mains were reunited so yeah.

I don’t care what anyone says, Kan Ra still makes my heart sing. That’s just one hell of an awesome character design.

@JEFFRON27

But S3 introduced a lot of stuff I personally thought was interesting and exciting all at once.

Maybe I’m in the minority on this, I don’t know, but Shadowlords… As someone that tends to prefer single player to getting shouted at online, this mode, I just freaking love it. Tons of longevity, tons of stuff to unlock, especially for a lore fan like me. It’s really been the gift that keeps on giving.

I think they did a great job with season 3. Mira is freaking awesome. I immediately wanted Maya’s sister the second they talked about her and was so psyched when we got her. I also love her glass cannon mechanic. I also love how Gargos turned out and all the crazy stuff he can do. Plus the fact that they offered up Eyedol in the survey and then introduced him in that trailer that practically made me jump out of my chair, and to have him be a stance changer!?

There’s a ton of stuff to like in this season. Yeah, I’m not a huge fan of guests and sure, I don’t love Kim Wu’s gameplay and I probably haven’t given Tusk as much of a chance as I should, even though I have both of them at level 50. But no season has been perfect so far. I’m still hoping Wulf gets more fun stuff to do because I find his move set to be so basic compared to the rest of the cast. I also didn’t really connect well with Hisako’s move set, even if I love her design.

So yeah, there’s preferable and not so preferable anywhere you look in any season. I think that this one in particular got off to a rocky start with the 3 stages announcement and the guests, and that sentiment kinda carried for a long time. I think that coupled with the rebalance and new mechanics threw people off (though why I’m not sure, given that season 2 had a rebalance).

Doesn’t change the fact that they’ve put out some great stuff with this game in each season, and I’m still looking forward to seeing what they do next with Character 3 and still hoping and praying that season 4 gets announced at E3 (or a brand new KI).

I think that if people could focus on what they love and what works and on constantly learning new things, that they’d be more willing to embrace the changes and evolve with the game, as it’s been doing for three years now and actually have fun in doing that exercise, instead of focusing on who moved their cheese and getting so invested in what the game was before versus what it is now, that there’d might be slightly less “in the moment” negativity, but who knows.

[BigBadAndy]

There’s a couple of ideas in here. I don’t want to go through them in detail, but I will just respond to two thing.

First, as far as the “outsiders” perspective, I think there’s a lot of people in the FGC who just look for any excuse to not try a game. If it’s not the game they are already playing there’s a nearly infinite number of things they can say, which all amount to “that’s not like the game I play, so it’s weird and bad and I don’t like it.” I don’t think there’s any way to make those folks happy. I’d rather see new games do something different and innovate. I don’t enjoy every mechanic in KI or every character, or every change that has happened to the game over the last three years. But I am impressed by all the risks and innovative things that Ms and IG have been willing to try.

The second thing you mentioned is “fundamental” players coming from other games and doing well. I think this is a sort of false idea. Chris G (and Justin Wong in S1) are just great players who understand how to think about fighting games in a way that leads to success. They beat 99.999% of SF players. The fact that they can pick up KI and beat 99% of KI players doesn’t suggest in any way that KI players are somehow less talented or fundamental as a whole than SF players. I have played tons of KI players who are obviously excellent SF players but just don’t “get” KI. They are easy to beat. Again, I’m not really arguing with you so much as pointing this out because I do feel like the normal assumptions is that “fighting game fundamental” means “what makes you good at SF,” and any mechanic in another game that wouldn’t work in SF is, by definition a “bad habit” that the game lets you somehow get away with. And I think that’s just wrong. As a SF game, KI is always going to compare less favorably to SF. But if you are willing to accept that combo breaking IS a fundamental skill for this game and being prepared to deal with breakers, counterbreakers and flipouts are fundamental. Having a pressure offense and being willing to take offensive risks are important skills in KI. “But that would get you killed in high level SF play.” So what? This isn’t street fighter. If you are playing KI trying to get good at SF, you’re doing everything all wrong.

[Infilament]

@Iago407

do you think there’s some hesitance with some people on flipout because in KI it’s a mere button press as opposed to the more complex sounding strings that you’re describing in SF4 and SFV? Maybe people don’t look at those as flipouts the way they look at flipouts in KI?

There is nothing at all complicated about flipouts/air resets in SF4 or SF5. They are still just one button press and a mixup where you have to guess. KI’s implementation of flipouts is similarly straightforward.

I really dunno how these upset people look at flipouts. It’s just another mixup, albeit a faster one than a HKD, but the increased game pace can easily be thought of as a positive (or, at least, neutral since KI is already pretty fast). People just really end up getting mad at whatever hits them.

[JEFFRON27]

@Infilament

@Iago407

do you think there’s some hesitance with some people on flipout because in KI it’s a mere button press as opposed to the more complex sounding strings that you’re describing in SF4 and SFV? Maybe people don’t look at those as flipouts the way they look at flipouts in KI?

There is nothing at all complicated about flipouts/air resets in SF4 or SF5. They are still just one button press and a mixup where you have to guess. KI’s implementation of flipouts is similarly straightforward.

I really dunno how these upset people look at flipouts. It’s just another mixup, albeit a faster one than a HKD, but the increased game pace can easily be thought of as a positive (or, at least, neutral since KI is already pretty fast). People just really end up getting mad at whatever hits them.

true though in my mind, the only way to remedy it is to give them options or at least let them know what can be done. There’s always a way, those people just need to know and be willing to try it.

I can say this because earlier when I still learning Cinder, I hated how trailblazer got punted by Glacius jumping heavy kick. @SonicDolphin117 suggested I time my air-light kick and guess @justathereptile doesn’t icicle kick much anymore. XD

if the advice seems sound the player CAN use it to break out of it, just have to give it a chance.

[ZeroSyndicate]

When I say FG fundamentals I don’t mean “what makes you good at SF” I literally mean the fundamentals of fighting games. Neutral play, utilizing normals, spacing, anti airing, when it’s your turn and not. The CORE things that make a fighting game without any additional mechanics (Divekick, even though that had mechanics of it’s own too).

Breaking isn’t necessarily fundamental skill that is a requirement of this game. Japan players were notorious for never breaking or counter breaking, an we all saw how far Domi got at evo two years ago using those tactics. Domi and the other japan players had the fundamental skills that carried them as far as they went.

Fundamentals doesn’t refer to street fighter, fundamentals refers to base skills that translate to every game. An yes Chris G an Justin Wong are great players in their own right, but if they didn’t have fundamental skills they wouldn’t be in the position they’re in. There are plenty of fundamentals required for marvel including a solid neutral game. Every fighting game is playable in a base fundamental style. Will you win a tournament with fundamentals alone? Probably not, but you’ll do EXTREMELY well.

[UKTyrant]

Give ways to spend KI Gold…

[BigBadAndy]

@Infilament

People just really end up getting mad at whatever hits them.

Just pulling this out for emphasis. This is especially true if it takes them a few tries to figure out what might have worked to get them out of it.

[DurtyDee810]

NEW IDEA!

Alright, I never played the much of SFIV during its final days. But I did enjoy that they added Red Focus attacks. It uses two bars and has “infinite” Super Armor - it can essentially absorb as many attacks as the user has health. But it can still be beat to throws and Armor Breaking moves.

What if KI had GOLD Shadow Counters? (It’s basically a Red Shadow Counter) I think it would be to strong if you had infinite hits of armor though. Maybe it can use two bars of meter, have 2-4 hits of armor max and still be weak to standing heavy normals. I was watching Nicky’s Mira vs @UABass 's Spinal set at Texas Showdown 2017 and it got me thinking. Mira in the hands of a skilled player is pretty nasty. Bass tried to shadow counter so many times, but Mira’s normals and bats are almost too much to pinpoint a shadow counter.

Another fun idea would be GOLD Counter Breakers. But lets not focus that right now because that could easily become too silly.

[TheRealMil]

That might be cool but the only problem is 2 bars in sf4 was only half your meter in ki it would be all of it.

[DurtyDee810]

For such a powerful move, I think it would need to be 2 bars. Risk it all to save your life.

[TheRealMil]

Not really worth it to me I rather just try a block the pressure and the hit him hard using my meter.

[FinchoMatic]

Remove uppercuts into shadow moves for semi optimal safety net.

You made a commitment. You deserved to be punished.