How would you handle a Killer Instinct sequel?


#41

To an extent, yes, they could Minecraft the crap out the current iteration of KI to where it’s base form is virtually unrecognizable, but therein lies the problem. It would still have it’s engine base to deal with. There are several technical limitations that have had to be worked around that could be vastly improved with a reset. For example all stages could be built with Ultimates in mind instead of just boss Shago’s on the shadow temple eliminating the need for the black curtain. Also stages could have better effects…perhaps they could be built within a full 360 degree map instead of a diorama that only allows for limited dynamic movement. I believe MS has said that due to the way they were built accessories were hard to work more into the game…just lots of little quality of life adjustments that could be accounted for from day 1 so they don’t have to come up with insane workarounds later down the line.

You know, before I was a member of this site I was a member of a Transformers fan site for a long time, and if you know anything about Transformers every year or 2 they do a complete overhaul of the whole thing with only a couple of exceptions. When the first live action movie came out everyone was losing their sh*t because Bay changed all of their classic designs to the point that they were nearly Transformers in name only. A lot of fans, myself included, really just wanted live action version of their classic 80’s designs. But there were a lot of people that kept saying this one thing that was a hard pill to swallow but it was very true: Having a new iteration of something doesn’t cause the previous to cease to exist. Having 4 or 5 bad live action TF movies doesn’t make my dvd collection of the original cartoon series disappear from my shelf, and a sequel to KI2013 won’t make it disappear either. If they make a sequel, you can always come back and play KI2013 anytime, same as you can SF3, MK5, Tekken 2, etc. Hell, do Smash Melee players keep the fact that it is nearly 3 games old and pre-internet from playing the crap out of it?

Anyway, just some food for thought.


#42

Well, sure it would be for graphics, but also for the story, the addition of new characters, new moves, new mechanics, a more streamlined approach to everything, built from the ground up by the company that’s working on the game.

I agree that a lot of the expansion we’re talking about could happen in this game, but also keep in mind that this is a 5 year old game now. Sure, there are some games that hold their audience for five years or much more, but those are really few and far between, especially in the FGC. Smash Melee is really the only one that holds a substantial player base far after release that I can think of.

Plus, this game was very well received by a relatively small number of people. Now that the name is out there again and there’s likely some good buzz about it, why not let IG or a new company work on a brand new game that can generate new hype among people that already respect the IP’s newfound (or re-found) reputation and try and make something even bigger and better rather than forcing that company in to the confines of iterating on a 5 year old game whose player base has already fallen off considerably by logical attrition?

Yes it’s a deep game and some people are still playing and learning, but you say 500 as if that’s a large number. At one point there were five million people that had either played or downloaded the game or whatever it was they announced a few years back. I’m not saying “the game is dead,” or anything like that. Games don’t die and we can all play them at our leisure whenever we want.

But you’re talking about bringing people back to a 5 year old game. Sure, adding some moves, adding some characters, adding some story stuff is all well and good, but if you’re adding it to a game whose player base has shrunken considerably because it’s been out for so long and newer and shinier things have come out since, do you really think that’s a monetary investment that would pay off for MS? It’s possible, but I don’t know if it seems overly likely.

As for a reset killing KI, do you mean this particular game or the franchise as a whole? If it’s KI 2013 you’re talking about, I think people that enjoy the game will play it regardless if they want. But if you’re talking about KI as a whole, I’m kinda confused by that logic. Assuming the sequel is actually good, and I have no reason to think it wouldn’t be, then why is making something that’s newer, bigger and better a threat to the franchise?

You’re assuming that they’d do a seasonal model again. There’s no guarantee of that. For all we know, a sequel could start off with a base roster of 30 characters and give us another ten via DLC. We simply don’t know.

As for resetting SL, who’s to say they wouldn’t want to start a new story? I mean, spoiler alert, but Gargos died in the comics. How do you expand upon a mode when the mode’s final boss is dead? Sure, you can rework that, add a new boss, add more missions, etc.

But personally, I think that Shadow Lords, what they have here, was a great first design and I’m willing to bet that they learned a lot that could be put in to improving a new version of the mode. How would they change it? I’m not entirely sure. But that’s kinda the point of sequels. You have the freedom to iterate and improve upon what you did well before, lose some of the stuff that either didn’t work as well before, and add new elements and ideas.

While I agree that you can do a lot of that stuff within the construct of KI 2013, I get the feeling it’d be a lot easier to do that without being restricted to working on a 5 year old game using an engine you didn’t create and to simply build it all up again from scratch, making the game that you want to make.

So to me, that’s a good enough reason. You want to build something that’s new and fresh from the ground up, something that’s familiar and welcoming to returning players, but has enough exciting elements and ideas to give them plenty of incentive to dive in. You want to build upon the reputation KI 2013 created for itself, but you don’t want to be hamstrung by having to work within its confines anymore.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be disappointed, I’d be happy to have more fighters in this game. The thing is though, we haven’t received anything new in the way of characters or modes or anything like that since what, early 2017? Why go back and expand on a five year old game two years later when you can just put out a sequel with better graphics, some new mechanics, ideas, characters, etc? The fanbase has already dwindled for this game and while I know a lot of people enjoyed it, let me ask you honestly:

Which is more likely to draw in both new and returning fans five years after a game’s initial launch and two years after content ceased… A shiny new sequel, or adding more stuff to a game that a lot of people picked up, played, enjoyed for varying amounts of time, and then put down?

I’m not saying that no one would come back to it, and had they kept steadily iterating on the game, adding to shadowlords, adding characters, adding backgrounds, adding skins, etc… Then yeah, I think more people might’ve hung around longer, but asking people that moved on to new games years ago to come back because you put some new characters in an old game… I dunno, doesn’t that seem like a harder sell to you than simply giving them something entirely brand new to look forward to and get their hands on?

Those are lots of good points. :slight_smile:

I think the technical limitations of this current build could be more easily overcame with a new build, rather than trying to wring more life out of something that came out five years ago. Some studios can get away with this if their IPs draw a metric ton of fans, but I’m not sure that a niche game in a niche genre is really on that list.

Also, and I can’t stress this enough, but it really bears repeating that a KI 2013 sequel does not somehow negate the existence of KI 2013. I’m not sure why people are so put off by the idea of a sequel. If you don’t like the new game, you still have the game that you do like. It’s not going anywhere. If you’re worried about the fanbase dwindling for KI 2013 if a sequel comes out, then let’s be real here… The fanbase has already dwindled on this game. Look at this site, for example. There’s a fraction of the people on here that there once was.

That’s fine though. That’s okay. Attrition happens. You play something for a long time, eventually you move on. I haven’t played this game nearly as much as I used to. That doesn’t mean I’ll never play it again. I still love sitting down with my crappy Sadira and doing some bounties in Shadow Lab.

But if you want the KI brand to remain relevant and to thrive as a franchise, I think it needs a bit more after two years of being complete then some more characters. I think you build on the reputation of this game and you build a new game from the ground up with your own vision in mind of what you want the game to be. What you liked from the last game and what you want to improve on along with new ideas.

Now, if they made a sequel, there’s no guarantee we’ll all like it. Maybe some of us decide it’s not our thing. I still remember on the DH forums, some people that loved the original games playing season one and saying “yeah this isn’t for me, this isn’t what I wanted,” and that’s okay. They still have the old games, just as we’d still have the old games and KI 2013 if the new one doesn’t tickle our pickles.

So why not go for the full sequel and give people something bigger to look forward to and get hyped about instead of expanding on game that was an XB1 launch title? I keep seeing people say “why not just expand on what we already have” and I can’t help but think “why expand on that when you can build something newer, bigger and better?”


#43

I know that a new game would bring much more audience and money but,

  1. For a new KI game to feel fresh it needs a new console, so that all of us can say wow once more. I do not think that they would make a new game for, more or less, update the way it is created. Plus until they would do that, it would be outdated once more. If a new console happens in about 1 year or so, we are about 2 years away from the sequel, at least (and i do not believe this will happen).
  2. What does it mean for the game? Would it really make it better for the actual players? I know stories are great but we only see them once. I bought injustice 2 which story was like a movie. I saw it ok, then what is left? The game. Wouldn’t it be a better game if it had 20% of the amount of the sources for the story to go for that and the rest 80% for characters and stages? Same way i think about KI. I don’t understand that need of a whole new game. I understand the word ‘new’ is attracting but i think it better for movies to be treated like that, no games. Plus i like the texts and comics. They are still inspiring.
  3. This game curries a lot of nostalgia on it. It happened after about 20 years since the last one. For me it will be very difficult for a new game to overpass the emotional connection that soon. I don’t think it will be that hype waiting for the same characters once more (i guess). Plus its name is KI, not KI 3 or something. That means that it inlcudes everything related to KI, and it is not a sequel. It gives me the impression that whatever is going to happen is going to happen in this game. That also makes me believe that there will not be a sequel. So if i want more KI i must support this game.
  4. I do not believe they can make a better game than this. I have seen all the games after KI’s release and they all feel bad (of course that is my personal opinion). They are so much slower, less dramatic than KI i can not watch them. They have better graphics but you forget graphics after you have played 2 minutes. Not to mention their really bad music.
    Anyway, just talking :slight_smile:

#44

I think a new console makes a lot of sense for the next Killer Instinct. KI helped launch the XB1 and if rumored estimates are correct and Scarlet and PS5 are coming in Fall, 2020, that seems like a perfect development cycle. Apparently a LinkedIn profile for a person working at Square Enix revealed that he’s working on a AAA title for PS5. So my guess is that either dev kits have gone out or there are at least some devs working on some form of next gen hardware to prep games for launch in two years, which isn’t a very long time.

So no, I don’t think we’ll see a sequel on current gen. If a sequel were to be developed from the ground up aka not using the Hex Engine, it would likely take a few years. If KI development stopped in early 2017, then it would seem like a good amount of time to prep a sequel.

Would better graphics, new characters and a new story in a newly released game be better for fans, or would it be better for fans if they added some more characters to a game that’s five years old. I mean, c’mon man, you have to know that sales would be much better for a new game.

As for the players perspective, again, this game is five years old. A lot of people that played it before have moved on to other games. Sure, a season of characters and story and some stages might bring some of them back for a little while, but what then? You’re still forcing the developers to work within the previous constraints of the Hex Engine, so you’re likely to get graphics and animations that look like their first generation XB1 caliber… I guess I just don’t see how that benefit outweighs the potential of a next gen sequel.

Sure, and nostalgia’s great, but if you want a brand to continue to thrive and draw people in, then it needs to find better ways of keeping itself relevant than a five year old game and 20 year old nostalgia, don’t you think?

Take Tekken for example. People loved Tekken 3 when it came out, but if they never released another Tekken after 1999 or whatever, I mean sure, people would still be wistful about it and hopeful for a sequel some day, but it’s not like it would be relevant.

I mean hell, Twisted Metal had a great run, especially with Twisted Metal 2 and Twisted Metal: Black, but we haven’t seen that series since PS3 and it’s all but vanished in terms of relevance. I dunno, to me, you can have nostalgia and relevance and that’s more of an ideal scenario in my mind. I still love Super Mario 3 and still play it once in a blue moon, but I’m also glad that I have New Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Galaxy, etc and I enjoy those a lot.

So I don’t know if nostalgia should necessarily be a ruling factor. I mean, I’ll concede that the hype for a new KI might not be nostalgia-based nearly to the extent that the last game was, but I honestly don’t think it needs to be. I think if IG handles a next gen sequel, I think a lot of the hype can come from the fact that they made a great fighting game and fighting game fans that experienced that game and other players that heard good word of mouth might be interested in a beautiful new sequel. To me, that’s more likely than hype getting generated by some DLC characters for the current game two years after they stopped putting out content for it.

Well, I’ll say this. No fighting game since KI has grabbed me the way KI has. I love Soul Calibur and have since Soul Blade first arrived on the scene, but while I know SC VI is a great game, I’ve been slogging through Libra of Souls and the fights just don’t reel me in the way KI’s frenetic matches do. Of course, having said that, SC VI is still a beautiful game and it’s still fun.

I have to ask though, given that KI isn’t Soul Calibur or Dragonball FighterZ or any other game that’s come out since KI first launched, what’s to say that a KI sequel can’t be as good as KI 2013? I’m kinda curious about that logic. I mean sure, they made a great game, but there were flaws here and there.

Some tended to dislike some of the animations, some disliked the season one retros, some didn’t enjoy the purple shadows, some didn’t like certain characters, some feel the Hex engine limited the quality of ultimates and some are still made ultimates weren’t done for everyone. Some feel the select screen still takes too long to load characters or move the curser around. Some feel that while Mick Gordon’s music was great, the season 3 music isn’t quite as good. Some love Mike’s voice as the KI announcer, but think the person that worked on the rest of the game made the voice work seem a little disjoined. Some loved the particle effects and some hated them. Some dislike that the dimming that took place when projectiles were thrown out being removed was a bad decision. Some thought there was a lot more to do in terms of skins, and that’s in part a limitation of the Hex Engine. Some dislike the fact that bounties you can’t collect still show up in large numbers in Shadow Lab. Some people wish there were more character slots in Shadow Lab. Some believe the story is too disjointed in KI 2013 because of the seasonal model. Some think some think some think.

Obviously you’re not going to please everyone and some of these are total nitpicks. Maybe all of them are to, well… Some people. :slight_smile:

Point being though that there’s always room for improvement, even on great games. To me, the idea of Iron Galaxy working on a sequel with perhaps more money given the payoff on the last investment, building something with better graphics, a bold new (cohesive) narrative, their own engine that they know backwards and forwards, using animations they create and having a more ideal amount of time to get things just right, to craft more streamlined, more impressive menus and fonts, to build a ton of completely new stages, not just two or three for a new season, but twenty or more that are specifically built to allow for more dynamic camera views, that don’t require a black screen at any point, to take what works for a lot of the existing characters and tweak things and put new ideas in to them and fun new mechanics while creating awesome new characters that can do amazing things…

I dunno man, those thoughts get me a lot more hyped for playing KI than the idea of adding some characters to the current game. That would also be exciting to me and I’d welcome them and play them and what not, but I don’t know… I still think you’re going to get a lot more people a lot more hyped for KI if you’re talking about a sequel than on adding to a game they played and likely left a long time ago, and if IG or whom ever is able to build their own vision from scratch and put it out on the next console, I think it could be something even more special in many ways (nostalgia excluded) than the current game we have.

Same here, man! No problem. :slight_smile: I love KI 2013 too and I’ll probably play it for years to come. I just want to see this series become even more of a known commodity; a household name in both Xbox’s lineup of big time franchises as well as within the FGC, who maybe don’t gravitate to new games in a lot of situations as much as one might like. KI slowly built their following over time and I’d like to see them continue to build on that in the best, most realistic ways possible and I think a big sequel on next gen has a better chance of doing that than a 4th season, but if you disagree, it’s all good!


#45

Regardless of platform, the main thing I’m worried about for another KI is changing the developer again. KI2013 turning out the way it did, flaws and all, was nothing short of miracle. If they don’t contract Iron Galaxy and their experienced designers again for the sequel, they’re taking another big risk with the series and it may not pay off like before.


#46

That’s true. It’s definitely something to worry about, but I’d just prefer to worry about that if and when it’s necessary. We were worried about Double Helix and that turned out great. We were worried about Iron Galaxy and I’d argue that turned out even better. If Adam Isgreen and James Goddard are involved again, I’d have every ounce of faith that they’d make sure we get something special like we got with this game. We can call it a miracle, but it was also a really good job done by really talented people on both sides. :smiley: