10 days! 10?! And I’m just now hearing about this now? Why!?
Oh, and thanks Storm. 
Cool stuff…good to know.
Inable to make any new material as I’m in the process of moving.
I’ll be listing out ideas when I get somewhat settled!
if I understand this right, then a frametrap is basically a move that comes out faster than other moves for one reason or another during a “lull” in combat.
So Meaty MK -> LP on wakeup should be a frame trap because Meaty MK is + on block and LP comes out faster than any other move except for THEIR LP, BUT since you’re + on block, your LP comes out +frames faster stuffing theirs?
Sounds right to me, but I’m not the expert…
Basically right
It’s a way of leaving a brief gap in your offensive to catch people who are pressing buttons during your blockstring. It doesn’t have to be a + move. The most common example is Jago’s M. windkick
Jago’s M. Windkick is -3 on block. If you try to use a LP(5 frames startup), you would be faster than him pressing the same button, but if he does a DP(3 frames startup), he will stuff any normal you try, since the DP has invulnerability and has 3 startup frames. This also works for throws attemps, since DP beats them.
So you should just block? No, because he could just go for a throw.
Jago, in this scenario, has good tools to keep you frame trapped, even with - on block move.
DP’s are two frames of start up and active on frame three no? I think it was that way, I recall any DP character could also punish Jago’s medium windkick.
Yup, you are right!
Exactly. A frame trap is a tactic that will typically leave you at enough advantage to harass your opponent with quick attacks, unless they’re willing to do something with resources or that’s unsafe.
can you typically combo after a frametrap? I personally have never got into a combo from a Light attack. Maybe thats just poor execution on my part but Id like to know for sure.
It depends on what you’re trying to do. Say you do a meaty that leaves you +2-3 and then a light jab afterwards. If you cancel that jab into a special and the jab catches the opponent trying to push buttons, then you will begin a combo. Your issue might be using specials that don’t connect or combo off of lights.
And keep in mind, frame traps don’t guarantee anything. It’s just something you’re doing to throw your opponent off, like a high/low mixup.
Yes, you can combo after a frame trap (and more generally, from nearly all lights in KI). The only question is really if you’re able to confirm the hit into an opener. Single light->opener is pretty difficult to confirm from, which is why a lot of times you’ll see a string like cr.LK->cr.LK->opener - the second LK is what they’re using to “see” that they’ve opened up the opponent, and they’ll only do the opener if they’ve verified that the string is hitting.
You can of course just always cancel your frame trap button into an opener as well, but if they don’t bite on the frame trap then that means you’re probably now at negative frames in front of them (means it’s not your turn anymore).
Here’s the problem with that…
Your sheet for thunder currently lists 5LP and shadow COTE as having different startup times, even though they’re both 5-frame moves using the street fighter way of writing frame data.
As a simple ease of use thing, listing first active in the startup is much more convenient when quickly skimming through frame data looking for something like punishes, as you simply take the startup of a move and compare it against another move’s frame disadvantage–no adding 1 frame required.
Why would DP beat the LP?
I’m trying to understand frame data here… so Jago does M.Windkick and it’s blocked so he’s -3f, meanwhile the other player does a LP and let’s say it’s 5f, at the same time Jago inputs DP with 3f, but he’s -3f already therefore the LP should win, but you say otherwise… is it strictly because of the invulnerability? Or is my logic just entirely off?
It’s just because it’s invincible. If it weren’t invincible then it would lose to the LP.
YES I understand at last! <3
Good. Could you explain it to me then?
Jago 1 does a medium windkick that is -3 frames on block. Jago 2 over here blocks successfully and does a light punch immediately which is 5 frames on startup, Jago 1 though can’t do ■■■■ for 3 frames, he already inputted his dragon punch which is 3 frames on startup (ordinarily this would beat Jago 2’s 5f LP, however, he’s chilling for 3 frames because of Jago 2’s successful block)
So, basically it boils down to:
Jago 1 was blocked and is frozen for 3 frames + 3 frames of DP start up = 6 total
Jago 2 inputs LP for 5 frames which wins…
except here’s the kicker:
DP is invincible for the surprise win