Hi fellow Hisako players. I’ll create this thread to list every safe jump Hisako can do against her opponent you can give me yours and I’ll keep the thread very organized. Feel free to post yours guys. @Marbledecker @STORM179 @Infilament @MBABanemobius
Air-ORZ Mix-up Found By @STORM179
Vid Coming Soon
Safe jump that is safe even if Sabrewulf Shadow Eclipse Found by @STORM179
Vid Coming Soon
No jump is ever safe. If anything they’re a big risk for a big reward. 
Some jumps in are safe when after the Hard knockdown ender.
Well, yeah, but it wasn’t made safe due to the jump; it was made safe due to the knockdown ender.
Pretty sure he’s just referring to meaty jump-in setups with minimal to no recovery time, and “safe” is being used colloquially. Though that said, I doubt we’ll be able to solve certain characters (I.E. those with extremely fast wake-up reversals).
Nice idea for a thread! This is something I definitely need to play around with more.
Not true. Pretty sure Hisako can safe jump all members of the cast off influence ender actually. That includes Wulf’s shadow eclipse or Fulgore’s 2-frame dp.
@GalacticGeek: yes, safe jumps are a thing. It’s a very specific phrase with a very specific meaning in the context of a FG. As I’m sure you already knew.
Hehe… what’s funny is, after I posted that, I found this video and felt a little silly:
So then uhh… whaddaya say, let’s figure some of this out! 
Then by all means, please explain this very specific meaning to me - in my experience, you can make jumps safe, but inherently, they are not safe in of themselves - they are a risk for a greater reward or to allow you have the opportunity for even more options.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games#Safe_Jump
“The technique of timing an aerial attack against a fallen opponent in such a way that that if they try a reversal upon wakeup, you can recover and defend against it in time. Ideally if no such attack occurs your attack will also hit their block and allow you to continue pressure, though this may not always be possible.”
Pretty much the definition @Marbledecker cited above.
The best example of them being used in KI is probably by Thunder, who gets guaranteed variations of this off his call of the earth ender. If you’ve ever seen Rico or Guttermagic play and seen them jump in on a knocked down Wulf and seen the Wulf try to shadow eclipse only to have it blocked and then punished, then you’ve seen one in action. If they don’t reversal, then the Thunder jump HP hits super deep for the cross-up - if they do reversal, he simply lands and blocks.
It is a “safe jump” because there is nothing to do but take it - any attempt to anti-air it will either get you hit meaty (if it’s a non-invincible reversal) or get blocked (if it is an invincible reversal). Often the jump itself is ambiguous enough that backdashing is similarly difficult to judge, and unless you’re familiar with the setup there’s a decent chance you’ll just forward dash into the meaty instead.
So since we don’t have training mode online, and we have no way to program wakeup options on practice mode, we’re pretty much going to have to start a lobby where one of us is Hisako and the other is whomever; the person trying out safe jumps can continually combo>influence ender the defender, and the defender does nothing but get knocked down and attempt a wakeup option.
I would be TOTALLY willing to do this. But I REALLY wish we had an online training mode… especially us Hisako players, she’s a tough nut to crack.
Anyway, @STORM179, can I be your practice dummy? 
Lol. That’s fine. Been wanting to play KI anyway. I have the basics of the Hisako safe jump down - I know I can land before shadow eclipse comes out - I’m not 100% sure it’s timed well enough yet to catch him if wakes up with nothing though.
And with Jago I have a setup with air-ORZ that forces them to DP backwards on their wakeup if they want to hit you, but that’s obviously not a safe jump. It’s still a nasty mixup though, as most people aren’t expecting the cross-up air-ORZ in general.
Sweet, that all sounds wonderful. Are you free any time this weekend? I’m all gravy after Friday 9:00pm (est) through Sunday @ 8:00pm (est).
And all of those had specific conditions that had to be met 1st to make it safe. It’s all about timing and spacing, but no matter how you look at it, even that jump (as with all jumps) is still vulnerable to anti-airs, such as with most characters d+HP.
It’s not vulnerable to d+HP anti-air. If you try to do that you’ll get stuffed every time.
That jump is literally not vulnerable to anything. It is a 100% safe jump.
Sabrewulf MUST block it or else turn himself invincible to escape it (at which point, Orchid recovers and can block or interrupt).
“Safe jump” is a fighting game term that applies to this very specific scenario when you’re attacking an opponent who is getting up after a knockdown. You time a jump-in such that you hit the opponent just as he gets up, but you land and recover in time to block a reversal. It only works if the opponent has a reversal that is slower than the landing recovery of your jump, though (in this case, KI has 4 frames of landing recovery, and Wulf’s shadow eclipse reversal is, I believe, 8 frames of startup).
I’d say all “safe jumps” are vulnerable to Hisako’s catch counter…
Tell that to any high level Thunder player
Simply not true. It’s all about the timing. If I d+HP anti-air before her kick comes out, I win - simple. If it was truly safe, you’d see it being performed more often, because it would be a broken and easily abused mechanic. However, jumps, by their very nature are NEVER safe. They are always a calculated risk with a potential reward.
Well, I’m not referring to just Saberwulf - I’m referring to the game in general (and as such, every character).
This is what changes things. This proves that what you guys are talking about is simply NOT what I’m talking about. You’re talking about something very specific, whereas I’m taking the stance that there’s a counter or 2 for nearly everything (otherwise, FGs in general wouldn’t work). I don’t know, maybe I didn’t get the gist of the entire conversation, but I digress…
From my perspective with what you said, of course you’re going to have advantage on knockdown, simply because you’re on the offense and you have options (you can force the attack in any number of ways or go on the defensive if your opponent tries to hit you with a wake-up attack); your opponent, on the other hand, doesn’t have as many options since he’s too busy trying to get back up (he can stay down and get up slowly or quick-rise and he can block or attack upon wakeup, for example).
Also shadow eclipse has 8 frames of startup? I thought that move was virtually instantaneous and beat out everything (I remember it being somewhere along the lines of like 3 frames or less), because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve put an attack that is literally right in their face BEFORE they input that move and they STILL hit me 1st. It’s 1 of the many reasons why I don’t like Sabrewulf so much - he has frame advantage on so many moves.