yup i know, i can still manage to get in throws on people alot of the time. you just gotta have guts and get in there after you know they’re already questioning themselves and you lol. sometimes guys will suddenly get zen like blocking skills against my ORZ offense, so ill stop and start throwing them with commands or regular throws.
Even tho I saw video of hisako counter locusts, it may have been patched out with update. Haven’t been able to do it
Was on mobile before, so couldn’t use multiple quotes.
Yep. As previously discussed, this is actually a true reset.
This is a thing, but I’m personally not a big fan of it. You’re basically taking a big risk delaying anything but the heavy rekka (and sometimes even with that), as you’re counting on the opponent pressing a button, but with pretty delayed timing. If you want to fish for counter hits, there are easier ways to do it.
This is a reset (one I’m actually inclined to think was an accident). Basically, he’s just delaying the influence linker just enough to come out raw instead of as a linker. It’s a lot easier to do off an AD, but is technically possible on a manual as well. General rule is that if you’re close enough for a Sako light button to hit, you’re close enough to get command grabbed.
Totally a thing, and actually was in S2 as well. I’m not personally a fan (I dislike having to dash into a hit confirm), but is definitely a viable Hisako mixup.
Correct. Heavy air-ORZ is 0 on block, and the lighter versions are both -2. On the plus side, this allows us to go into influence immediately if it’s blocked, which allows for a pretty nasty tick throw setup. Light influence hits on frame 3, so they’ve basically got to reversal a light jab (5 frames) to trade with you. Unless they DP (and who does that after a blocked air-ORZ?) or jump out, you’re pretty much going to hit them for some nice command grab damage and another setup. Influence range is crappy enough that you have to be sure to space it properly, but I’ve found this to be an effective way to maintain pressure despite the fact that we aren’t plus on air-ORZ anymore.
Ah - your reply just made me notice that he said he was hit by the TKORZ - rather than having blocked it.
In a specific context it’s useful - you need the read for it not to be crazy risky, but with the read/proper opponent conditioning it’s pretty nice.
Fair enough, but why not just use a delayed HP rekka instead? It’s a bit more likely to actually get the counterhit you’re looking for. Are you trying maybe still get the mixup just in case the “delayed button” read is wrong?
Ah - well I was saying that delayed rekkas in general had their place in context - but if we’re talking specifically low rekka delay, then here’s one example of how I’d use it:
- I toss out the first and second hit of the rekka, both using LP, both are blocked
- Opponent is thinking either (a) ok he’s done… or (b) the third hit is coming overhead
- Opponent either walks forward or backward, relinquishing low guard
- 3rd hit of rekka comes out low and connects
In this scenario, if the opponent opted to walk forward and attempt to punish, delayed HP would connect; but if the opponent opts to block high or otherwise walk backward, HP rekka would get blocked but LP rekka will connect.
So cheers to good timing - just uploaded a match to my channel that so happens to feature flip-out (right at the beginning), and the Throw - Close Heavy reset (@1:15)!
Nice heavy influence reset at the end
That’s a really good example of the throw->heavy reset. I still think that it’s preferable to go into the combo system though - the command grab will whiff on block (or will it? do you time it late enough to tick?), and the influence scales heavily and knocks them down unless you’re in instinct.
I think throw->HK->rekka is the better option. Keeps your pressure going on block (curious about whether you can tick the influence now though - it’s usually not great for that), and gets you a full combo punish on hit. It’s also good because it works regardless of whether or not you have full wrath.
For the record, my favorite stagger combo off that is throw->HK->jump+HK->manual->combo. You wind up with a lot of timing lockouts as people try to mash break that jump+HK. The jump+HK isn’t actually breakable, but turns into a timing lockout once you land if they’re still mashing
Oh I absolutely agree - in that particular circumstance, to be honest I didn’t expect him to panic jump in reaction to my descent and cross me up, so I was a little spooked and needed to refresh my mental stack so I opted for the knockdown. He scared me!
Yeah it will whiff, which is awful - though I haven’t messed with delaying the throw. However I think I have another answer (aside from continued pressure on block, which is also nice) for when we have the read on a block, just gotta test it out.
I agree - do you think it might catch back-dash for some opponents?
Yeah I’m definitely using that now when the opportunity presents itself.
Haha. I respect using influence for a little mental breathing space
Ok. Normally influence is not a great option for tick throws, so not surprised on that count. It’s too shallow and the start-up on the heavier ones can be prohibitive - it’s why I was so excited to find we could tick with it after an air-ORZ.
Nah. The HK will whiff and doesn’t recover in time to catch the backdash. I think just letting the throw drop and tossing out a delayed cr+MK will do the trick on that though. I was messing around with some similar-ish things in my set with @TheNinjaOstrich yesterday.
I love seeing wallsplat, resets. Good job @Marbledecker lol.
So I practiced a bit in the lab and then hit exhibition. Sometimes I feel bad for the opposition. I had great success today putting in work.
-Pulled a teleport cancel combo off a reset. Came up other side, opponent mashed a normal to break. Ate a punish
-did run of mill combo, used light rekka linker, reset with influence for knockdown. Cross up TK ORZ, for another knockdown. As suspected opponent was flustered so did a wake up into my counter
-pretty much did 100% damage off 2 combos. Opponent watched himself die. Wallsplat reset lol
-flip out into possession, cr.MK into teleport cancel, opponent mashed, punished into instinct cancel with influence reset
What a day! Those are highlights I pulled off. I find dropping combos off heavy influence linker to be good counter bait for me as well. They mashing to break the AD alot of the time, or sit frozen, so I’ll confirm into combo again or kirby/influence
I don’t know if this was discovered but if you anti air with CR.hp you can dash up, st.lp (flip-out) dash again for a double cross up when she has wraith. Might work without wraith . Tested the best I can without wraith, if your close enough to use flip-out after CR.hp and hit st.lp fast enough you can dash under for a cross up. Also I noticed there isnt much info about shadow orz (in air) or how people are using it. After messing around with hisako flip outs, I’ve come to the conclusion that maybe we can use shadow air orz to create more flip out opportunities and mix up from there. In theory this can be really good I think, especially if you have a good read on an opponents habits after each flip out. Just a thought
I’m definitely going to try out this setup - sounds really grimy
On the shadow-air ORZ point, I’m not sure I’m grasping how you mean to use it. People in the middle of a flipout animation are invincible, so you can’t really set them up for anything after you flip them out. And anything you set up meaty will freeze the screen and give them time to respond accordingly so long as they weren’t mashing something as soon as they landed. You can of course recap them directly if they’re in the juggle state though.
There is a thread on the sub-forum for how to use shadow-air ORZ. If you figure something else out about it that we missed, definitely feel free to post your findings there!
Confirmed: It works.
Yes i meant to use shadow orz (in air) for the recapture and then go for another flip out mix up or combo of your choice to mix things up a bit.
Ah, ok then. Yeah, you can use the shadow air-ORZ to recap, but from there you won’t be able to get another flip-out within that combo string, since Sako doesn’t have an ender that juggles and shadow air-ORZ will ground them immediately.
But yeah @xxHiGHFIVE5xx , if you can figure out some additional ways to use shadow air-ORZ, then definitely post it in the thread linked below! I’d love to find that there are some additional ways to incorporate this into Sako’s game effectively.
I am going to try out Hisako for a while. Get her to level 50. Make her another pocket character. I will try to find a use for the Shadow Orz. The anti air flip out is so fun
Will do I don’t really go for her shadow orz (in air) a lot unless someone breaks my flip-out attempts. A good majority of the time I’ll get the lockout and whatever i want to combo with. Ummm… as for when you recapture with it. I had the idea to recap and then do CR.hp into another flip out mixup, unless that’s not possible. I haven’t tested it so I don’t know
I also wonder if you can combo and then manual with CR.hp into tk shadow orz (in air)? Probably not, but that would be good to know and be able to do. Hisako would be the flip out queen
Ah, I got you. Yes, that should be totally doable (I think @Marbledecker uses a similar setup actually). You’re definitely allowed to use cr.HP as a manual, which bounces the opponent back into the air. I’ve never personally done it intentionally, but I imagine you could set up some nasty stuff with something like that.
Say, air-ORZ recap->cr.HP manual->st.LP flipout->dash under->cr.MK->ORZ. Might not be the most practical thing to do with your combo opportunity, but it’d almost certainly hit most people the first time they saw it