Here is my overall balance suggestions for each character. Come give your wanted balance changes for each character as well

Specifics are kind of hard when there is no place with really accurate frame data to pull from. Its one thing I hate about KI is accurate info is kinda hard to obtain.

CONGRATS!

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When in doubt, do it yourself. I have, I have a pages worth of ARIA frame data that I counted myself. Yeah, the in-game isn’t 100% correct, but it’s pretty good.

Again, when it doubt, do it yourself.

Instead of thinking of adjustments on the spot, go do some research and then come back. It’s like the mira command grab, you had absolutely no idea how it works. Then you went back on it and scrapped the change altogether.

I dont even know how you go about doing that really, Ive always went off of guides that someone has made. Id use the in game stuff if it were up to date.

Raam already has throw invulnerable moves on wakeup. His grab’n’stab command throw is throw invincible. Why should he get a shadow reversal (with armor) that also does the same thing?

I think it’s good to keep the discussion on what’s possible within the realm of what’s also likely. If Raam is using kryll rush, is an Orchid instinct firecat really what’s most likely to blow it up? Or a Rash bike? Omen and Kan (who I’d imagine requires some very particular spacing to have this happen, where the bear grab somehow doesn’t eat the scarab on approach, but runs him into it during the grab itself?) are maybe legitimate cases of when you’d expect to see this interaction, but I’m still not seeing this as a cast-wide issue or anything.

@MDMMORNING: Riptor’s mortars only go to where you were when she launched them - they won’t tag you if you kryll rush at them from a distance in response, and if you’re closer to her then you have better punish options anyway. Spinal’s skulls and Mira’s bats also both disappear once the character gets hit. Does Raam’s kryll rush landing not count as a hit? I’d likewise be impressed to see an Eyedol meteor clip you while landing a kryll rush


Again, I’m not even against the idea that KR landing animation shouldn’t be invincible - but this isn’t a huge overwhelming issue that he has to deal with all the time. Glacius, Gargos, and Omen (with perhaps Kan-Ra I guess?) are probably the only characters who might be able to routinely take advantage of this weakness. The argument can be made that those are the MU’s where he most needs KR to work, and for that reason it should be buffed accordingly, but you can’t convincingly argue that large chunks of the cast are abusing him over this.

It’s not, actually. :frowning: Raam has no throw invincible moves at all.

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Yep Raam has nothing for throws.

It’s called holding up.

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Go fight the cpu in single player, pick a character, do moves that you feel aren’t right. Finish the fight start counting. That’s the primitive way of doing it (my way) if you don’t have capture cards or video recording on a PC or whatever.

Shadow dominance is throw invincible.

I’m in Lansing, MI for work right now so can’t verify - you’re telling me that Raam’s command grabs aren’t throw invincible? They’re fast, so they lose to other command grabs with some regularity, but I was pretty sure that they couldn’t be normal thrown on startup.

Characters who Meaty throw can probably anti air if you hold up.

Omen has very solid frame traps and neutral. Once he’s in, his random fireballs have awkward gaps and sometimes none. They also build meter on block. His heavy orda shield is unsafe but is plus when cancelled into shadow rashakuken. Plus shadow form makes it at worst in neutral. Basically omen can touch you whenever he wants. So you either need to block or straight up guess for the mix up.

The pushback on his normals will give the opponent an opportunity to combat his good to really good space control (depends on the fireballs you get) and not deal with his already substancial meter gain by his orbs.

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Ah, so it is.

The regular ones aren’t, no. You can’t, say, instinct cancel and see that someone is throwing you, then use regular command grab to dodge it.

Huh. Learn something new every day :open_mouth:

Oh snap, y’know what, you’re right about Spinal and Mira. I have been clipped out of KR by Mortars, but I’ll concede my own inappropriate usage there. Eyedol’s Meteor is a relatively specific instance (surge L Meteor) that I’m also willing to chalk up to my own faults. I’ll fix up my post so I’m not spreading misinformation.

But the point that it can (and will) fail him in the matchups where it matters most remains. Aside from EX, that’s really my only issue with KR - it doesn’t have proper canned animation protections.

And, nope, no throw invincibility to be had outside of pre-jump and airborne frames (and EX Grab, but it’s so fast, does it matter?). That’s less pressing to me, though. I find it sort of enhances the battle of minds against other command grab characters in a really satisfying way when RAAM comes out on top of the exchange. I wouldn’t complain if they gave him throw invincibility on Grab, but I’m mostly just all about the canned animation protection. I don’t think anyone is trying to argue that it’s abusable cast-wide, just, y’know, where it matters.

Also, much love from the Glove! Hope you’re driving a rental, sorry about the state of our legislation that lead us to the state of our roads!

RAAM’s also the only character if you activate instinct then use shadow dominance it’s not escapable.

Well if its throw invincible thats great, I have a new option :smile:

That’s nuts. The more you know I guess. How could that be used in a practical situation? It comes out so quick


Instinct activation, a good read.