Here is my overall balance suggestions for each character. Come give your wanted balance changes for each character as well

IMy KI Balance Changes

Jago: Reduce his overall damage to be closer to Shadow Jago levels and reduce his meter gain over all, . Remove his flipouts, this should be a special trait and its one jago with his plethora of tools doesn’t need.

Sabrewulf: All versions of Eclipse are now Invincible, Shadow Eclipse has a slight damage increase. Sabrewulf having a better wakeup game helps make up for his lack of damage (and speed on his high/low) to have him return to neutral faster which is where he is strongest.

Orchid: No changes I can think of needed

Spinal: Shadow Meter curse now drains meter like old spinal meter gaining period is slightly shorter than the old timer, curses combo like in S2. (Note Instinct Curse is unchanged minus the fact if its used mid combo it sends the opponent into a juggleish state like in S2)

Shadow Jago: Pretty sure this guy is okay as is.

Fulgore: Fulgores canceling specials into other specials ability now cost 2 pips instead of one. He should still have an incredibly threatening offense and defensive toolset its just he resources are reduced overall and are a bit more costly, you will now have to make more thought out special cancels.

Sadira: A slight damage buff would do some good so she doesnt have to rely so hard on instinct. If IG could find a way to make her juggle game stand out since that supposed to be her main thing that would be great. Needs some suggestions from sadira players.

Thunder: Light dp is no longer fully invincible its now only hit invincible (all DP’s minus shadow can be thrown on startup), his dp can no longer be cancelled into sammamich on block. Stand LK flipout is removed, his mixup game is strong enough without this tool.

Glacius: A slight damage nerf to his shadow shoulder charge since his lockout damage is a bit high for a zoner.

TJ Combo: His combo’s can only contain one advantage ender in them from now on, so if he links of his advantage ender to continue the combo he has to use a different ender. Shadow Knee is now projectile invincible.

Maya: During dagger assault 4 pip version if you are hit it the daggers do not stop assaulting, but the time that dagger assault lasts is now reduced slightly. Makes the reward for gaining all pips greater.

Kan Ra: Swarms return to damage from season 2. Clutch Animation returned to S2 status. Slightly less landing lag on air swarms. Could be more changes needed but unsure. Need some suggestions from Kan Ra Players.

Aganos: Speed slightly increased while having 3 and 4 chunks from previous speed. Forward HK is now an overhead (each hit is an overhead of you continue to stomp). Light rock shoot counts as a low faster now.

Omen: When hit while fireballs or shadow fireballs are out they disappear, this will make omens have to approach more cautiously when they try to get in from full screen or when they are trying to apply pressure. While instinct his fireballs no longer count as shadow fireballs (I think this is a bug).

Cinder: Lvl 3 burnout time is reduced by 1 sec, Lvl 4 burnout time is reduced by 2 sec, so cinder doesnt have control over the neutral for as long while active.

Riptor: Tail flip is now back to S2 speed, I feel this was never too good tbh.

Hisako: No changes, Id say she is probably where she needs to be.

Aria: No changes for now

Rash: No changes, he seems to be in a really good spot.

Kim Wu: Parry when triggered successfully by a physical attack (projectile parrying is the same as before) will hard knockdown from anywhere on screen and do its damage and give kim her dragon. Dragon ender is removed due to her dragons becoming alot stronger. Dragons can now be spent to backdash or forward dash cancel now, the back dash leaves kim slightly positive when canceled from most things on block unlike the forward dash it can set her up greatly to continue her footsie game. Her shadow counter now works as well as most other shadow counters. Kim Wu’s dragon kicks now recover faster on hit/whiff, this properly allows her to safely escape the corner with a cross up safe jump if she corners herself from a combo or from making a good read in neutral.

Tusk: His combo’s can only contain one stagger ender from now on, if a combo is continued from a stagger ender the ender for that same combo cannot be another stagger ender.

Arbiter: 4 bullets have been removed from his gun clip. He now only has 1 plasma grenade that recharges. The only ender combat evolved bullets can be tacked on to is the damage ender and the only ender that the combat evolved plasma grenade can be tacked onto is the hard knockdown ender. He will still have powerful once chance breaks but he cannot count on them the entire match, his resources have been reduced so he will have to play neutral more as a resort and think more about using said resources.

Gargos: He is going to receive a slight rework to minions. There is a new bar above Gargos’s meter with Izzik and Dretchs faces on them, when a minion is lit up they are available for summoning, if a minion is grayed out they cannot be summoned, when a minion dies by the opponent’s hand (not through gargos consuming them this is a way to get around the new system) their bar is greyed out for 8 seconds before they are available to be summoned again, this will cause gargos not to rely so heavily on minions to win a match, reward opponents for destroying minions and encourage more intelligent minion play overall. Gargos’s Dp now hits on the way up as well as on the way down (combo’s) this huge buff makes gargos defense a bit better since minions wont be as crazy dominant as before.

Mira: No changes for now.

General Raam: Now when Medium Kryll Rush grab hits it now causes a hard knockdown command throw no Kryll poison is inflicted, distance from opponent after the grab is landed is similar to his medium command throw (Similar to Sfv Zangiefs Running Bear Grab). When Hard Kryll Rush grab hits it will cause raam to pin the opponent on his shoulder moving forward until the opponent is conered with a wall splat that leaves raam not close enough to perform combos or mixups (footsie distance), both you and your opponent are 0, does not apply kryll poison (Similar to SF4 Hugo’s meat squasher). Shadow Kryll Rush is now throw invincible and you can choose for the move to do a different action on hit based on the buttons used LM will have the Light Kryll Rush effect on hit, MH will have the medium krill rush effect on hit and LH will have the heavy Kryll rush effect on hit. Ultra changed to QCF and 3 Kicks. All forms of Kryll Rush when hitting an opponent can now not be hit out of the move like other command grabs, this is to ensure Raam players are not punished for making the correct read/punish.

Eyedol: 10% random switch increase on all moves that can cause random switching. Gotta see what IG is doing with him before I suggest anything else.

Possible System Mechanic changes:

To try and deter guess breaking/1st frame guess breaking by making breaking slightly more difficult, to do a combo breaker now you must perform a Z motion AND the button strengths involved to break a combo. (so DP motion plus Lights, Mediums or Heavies). This is a callback to the older Killer Instinct games as well.

Combo/Ultra Enders are now invincible until the animation ends to prevent stray hits from interrupting a finished combo.

All Unbreakable combo’s and safe counter breakers are removed.

Please tell me your suggestions on what you want to change in the game and what you think of my suggestions.

I liked your maya suggestion though I can’t agree with everything else. What I would change would be to let omen have his wings out but slightly increase his hit box.


Then what’s the point shago then? Sounds just like a watered down shago. That serves no purpose.

So you just want S2 spinal…why not just say so.

Since when can TJ link off his advantage ender? Maybe in instinct I believe. But that’s a 1f link at best. Ok so it can only combo off his instinct jabs…not a big deal. And that’s the only thing he can combo the advantage ender.

So then why would maya use any other ender then when she basically gets gargos minions?



So using a parry from anywhere on screen nets her a knockdown, damage AND a dragon? And can dragon backdash? Oh geez…

Why not?

As gargos would say “SALTY!”

So meter…or no meter which is it? Ig even stated gargos has bad defense. They said this…why are you changing this?

What…why? No…don’t even try.

Distance? That means you’re nerfing it…why?

Id definitely do that for maya, as is the unblockable is clearly the best option for her while the harder to earn 4 pip ability isnt as rewarding, maya’s high low is not that strong so there is a great possibility she will never open you up with it, getting a grab is probably going to be her reward for doing this. If this were to turn out to be too strong in the end, I would simply reduce the time the dagger assault is active.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no,…

And no.

I’m sorry man, but my thoughts do not align with yours at all.

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Nothing but :heart_eyes: for these ideas.

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Jago has one of the best toolkits in the game, he has a great footsie game, fireball game, reset game, frame traps, life gain ability which can result in using instinct 3 times, and a great wakeup, he absolutely doesnt need to have amazing damage to boot it just doesnt fit, Im super ok with him having a great all around toolset but I dont think he deserves to have strong damage at all or strong one chance breaks. I also dont think he a flipout I think he reset is good enough as it is without it and other more mixup oriented characters deserve it more.

Shago I would describe as being way more of a mixup character than jago is but they are quite a bit more risky, his footsies are less solid but in some ways his fireball game is better, shadow jago has the interesting surge ability that in some ways gives him more utility that jago but at always at a cost and a risk unlike jago, shago has an instinct that gives him basically a super move and shadow meter connecting instinct that can allow him to gain one bar for a mini taunt or use several shadow moves in row by using the opponents shadow meter. Jago and Shago are similar in some ways yes but they are still very different even if jago doesnt do insane damage anymore.

As for spinal I think his suck mechanic was cool/unique/useful but sucking instinct from the opponent is busted.

Omen was a good enough character in season 2 without having them not dissappear when he is hit, this change was never a good idea imo and can promote reckless play, its the reason I consider omen one of the strongest in the game.

I want cinder’s burnout to last a slightly less amount of time because I think it can control what your opponent can and cannot do a little too well at the moment so a strong tool like that I think shouldnt last as long.

If hisako is hit from anywhere on screen by a physical attack I believe a combo is started I dont see why kims parry shouldnt work as well if the correct read was made.

As for Arbiter, not salty Im just trying to promote intelligent play, I personally believe he has the tools to play a good neutral game with his long range sword normals and I think it should be a more important part of his gameplan. Also the character has an amazing parry in instinct (which requires a high ass skill ceiling to make ridiculous but still) so I think this character will be alright competitively.

Gargo’s minions will no longer be 80% of his game-plan and when it is his gameplan its alot more thought driven, as a result I gave him a real dp so his defense is a bit better.

The Raam thing isnt a nerf, the distance thing is what happens on hit, its a hard knockdown grab option if you choose to do the medium one. Light is the standing mixup/poison, Medium is the hard knockdown mixup/stomps, Hard is the corner carry.

Yes but why though, giving an explanation may give me a better understanding into your point of view, maybe Ill agree with you by the end of it. Saying No repeatedly while not specifying anything does not.

Alright whatever you say.

Yeah I think as is 3-4 chunk aganos just isnt worth staying in at the moment with how slow he becomes I think it should definitely be an option allowed to exist and be good in his arsenal. Also using a chuck for a semi real low mixup would be a nice offensive addition. Giving that Forward HK a purpose now as a fakeout for down hard kick now is nice and fair imo as well.

I reject the majority of this list. Most of these changes would heavily destabilize most characters and make some of them just too easy to play as or make them way worse than ever. I don’t even know where to begin. Some of the suggestions about Thunder were okay, but his lk flipout isn’t a huge issue at the moment.

As a Cinder player, I also have to say that your suggestion even defeats the purpose of picking him, as the rate of climb for white damage is slow, and even with your opponent burned out, they can stop using that particular button and play defensively for a while, or risk offense and try to extinguish flames on a combo breaker. Without his burnout mechanic lasting that long, thus forcing opponents to assess options and play more conservatively, and not being able to build white damage, his best attribute becomes useless.

Most of these suggestions seem to be aimed at making certain characters with advanced battle plans less capable, and therefore nearly unusable, like reducing Arbiter’s grenade count, and setting rules as to the enders upon which he can use his juggles, bullets and grenades. MIra’s bite doing potential damage as high as her recovered damage, that’s absolutely insane, she’d have instant level 4 enders in some cases. The fulgore changes you’re asking would absolutely destroy his offense and make his pip spending mechanic more than it’s worth, as that’s a half a shadow stock, that’s a really high asking price. A large number of these suggestions just seem unreasonable.


Jago: hell naw. His damage is high but if you were to look at it and identify a “problem” it would be the unbreakable health swing of instinct fireball combos, not regular damage.

Spinal: if he’s too weak I’d rather they tweak him in some other way rather than make that system work the same way as s2.

Fulgore: I would drop him immediately. You would be damn near completely gimping his offense, there is little to no reason to fear extended strings when something basic like laser > fireball > blade dash is using 3/4 of your maximum available resources. His zoning would take a similar hit, and so would his damage as an extension of reducing his available meter. And what happens to his 10-pip dash buff, does that just disappear?

Thunder: yes to the DP, no to the flipout. The flipout isn’t the problem, it’s the threat of damage that his other juggle options represent.

Glacius: nah. If anything they should take a look at the opener version, it does substantially less damage than the linker version.

Maya: helllllllllll naw. I’d appreciate a buff to it but that’s way too much.

Aganos: I’d be interested to see how the first one works out, don’t care much about the others.

Omen: after playing vs his s3 incarnation it confuses me that his rashakukens ever disappeared when he was hit. It certainly makes him strong, but not broken and its not really that annoying.

Cinder: why?

Kim: I assume the dragon kick thing is directed at the ender version…you know you have a side switch linker as Kim, right?

Arbiter: so…limit his approach options, limit his neutral options, limit his damage…I don’t think I would want to play him.

Gargos: so, a minor nerf (8 seconds isn’t that much when a minion can die while another lives to heckle) and a MASSIVE buff? Uhhhhh

Mira: holy ■■■■ no, Mira does NOT need more ways to do massive damage.

Raam: HK grab would be way overbuffed.


OK, since you asked nicely I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Like @FengShuiEnergy said, this basically makes Jago worthless compared to Shago. While Shago doesn’t have the same safety or health regen, he outshines Jago in basically every other way (assuming their damage is equal). Also, flipout really doesn’t make that much of a difference.

I prefer S3 Spinal much more than S2 Spinal. He actually has to be careful and thoughtful with his pressure because the opponent can use their options. Spinal could probably use some buffs, but not this.

I agree with the 2 pips for the cancel. However, giving him access to the devastation beam (and potentially his movement buffs) earlier is much more deadly and scary than you think. Just ask GutterMagic about EVO 2015.

I don’t see why you think making the only way to punish his reversal is a throw when a throw doesn’t punish any of his other wakeup options. It’s too risky to try for that. Also, once again, I think you’re overestimating flipout. His hard knockdown options basically do the same thing only slower.

And he needs this…why? Glacius isn’t exactly top tier at the moment, why does he need toning down?

TJ has a roll and powerline armor to get past most projectiles if need be. Also, advantage enders are risky enough for their potential reward that they don’t need to be limited.

So, basically you’re saying we should take away the two-way interaction of the game for like 5 seconds and watch Maya jump around? That doesn’t sound fun. Dagger assault is supposed to be risky, but it’s not worthless like everyone says.

Players are supposed to be encouraged to jump into swarms to take less damage from setups. It’s up to the Kan-Ra player to make the read and capitalize on it. Also, laying swarms on wakeup is good enough already, and midair swarm doesn’t have that much lag all things considered.

Kim Wu is crying right now. Chunks slowing Aganos down makes that matchup (and others) not a 10-0. Also, Aganos doesn’t need a ranged overhead like that with armor backing him up.

And how often did you see those moves in S2? Go on, I’ll wait.

The answer is rarely, and the fireballs do like no damage anyway.

Cinder’s not exactly super hard to block, and it goes away pretty quick if you’re not mashing the burned buttons.

People are still getting hit by this now. This isn’t necessary.

I love Kim Wu and I hope she gets all the love she needs. But good lord, man, I have no idea what you are thinking. Me parrying a fireball from full screen and the knockdown lets me get in for free? That’s ridiculous. Dragon ender removed? Just, why? Back dash cancels wouldn’t be good for Kim tbh cause she does best when she has her space and nothing more than her space.

OK, I’ll give you this one.

This really doesn’t enhance his neutral that much tbh. And limiting the enders he can do combat evolved off of isn’t really the right way to do it, either. 1 grenade at a time is too little. His damage ender is really the problem here. I wouldn’t mind reduced carbine bullets, though.

This would be a great idea if keeping minions alive was easy.

It’s not as easy as you think.

That’s too good.

Now I’m just confused to be honest. It really doesn’t help the problems the current move has.

OK, fine.

Jago: For me I definitely identify jago’s problem to be his damage from one chance breaks and damage he can deal in general, Im completely fine with the health thing, it becomes less annoying once he’s not killing you so bad while he is healing. Also I like the fact he has such a plethora of tools since he is the all around character of the game I really wouldnt want to nerf that.

Spinal: I just loved the old suck mechanic, it was so threatening and he was the only one who had it which is why Id like it to return a bit weaker for his meter gaining skulls.

Fulgore: I think he would still be really really good, he would be super crazy offensive anymore, you would have to play him alot more solid with footsies and make your mixup game count but its not all bad you get your devastation beam faster and the 10 pip dash buff faster since you get it at 8 now.

Thunder: has such a solid mixup game and pretty solid neutral/wakeup that I personally dont think he deserves the lk flipout and that it should belong to the less solid more risky characters of the game and hey its not like he doesnt still have a flipout with that one version of sammamish.

Glacius: I could take or leave the damage nerf, I just feel glacius may hit a tiny bit to hard for being the zoner he is.

Maya: I personally think he high/low mixup game is terrible so I doubt she would get much mileage off of it, and if she did then I would later just reduce the amount of time the technique lasts so maya gets less mixups.

Omen: I think it promotes a more thoughtless type of gameplay and I dont he ever needed it. This true lockdown is part of the reason I think he is like top 10 in the game right now. He would still be super competitive after this debuff but more thought provoking.

Cinder: I think burnout as is just shifts the pace of the match in cinders favor for too long atm.

Kim: you can end a juggle combo by flinging her into the corner or by making a read/reaction dragon kick to a jumping foe, I think a character who’s main gameplan is footsie/positioning shouldnt be punished for playing her game correctly.

Arbiter: His neutral game will actually have to be played more with his sword normals and imo its a competitive enough neutral game, he can rely on his vortex for some of the match but not all of it anymore. Also the man has an amazing parry so I think he is all good competitively at least.

Gargos: Idk I personally think its a major nerf/buff and makes the player have to think more overall 8 seconds in KI can be death for a character with bad footsies.

Mira: I personally believe she should be rewarded more for taking such a risk with a command grab and a small amount of potential damage is never guaranteed to be real damage (would consider reducing the amount of potential damage to being half of the gained health though.)

Raam: the HK run grab is slower than the others and should never hit anyone ever, you also lose out on a mixup if you connect so Id say its pretty fair. Read a yolo dp your opponent better prepare for losing screen positioning.

I would agree with this. Riptor already seems well balances to me, I’d rather not have her nerve. Now if you want to give her more moves, than have at it.

Do you even know how much mira’s command grab does in the neutral? I don’t think you do. Plus the reward is getting your health back. Why should mira get health back AND tack on some form of damage?

…not to mention it already moves him further than any other normal. I still think this normal is underrated by most. I admittedly only like his suggestions for purely selfish reasons… :grin:

Funny you should bring up jago’s one-chance damage considering not long ago I made a chart of one-chance damage, and jago is like…2% above average. It only becomes high in instinct due to healing in combos, and reducing the actual damage isn’t going to fix that.

Fulgore would be a way worse designed character. Getting beam and buffs earlier sounds good but it means you have to play without your main offensive tools and a gimped version of your neutral because every pip cancel costs more than a shago surge, so using his most unique system at all is completely nullifying the benefit of getting beam earlier. Meaning you’ve created a character that is mediocre/not very interesting most of the match, but has the strongest whiff punish tool in the game more often. Even if this version of fulgore isn’t totally gutted he will be substantially less fun to play as, and probably against.

Maya’s high/low with daggers is substantially better because she can take advantage of dagger blockstun to set up empty low mixups. This would be a serious overbuff.

Let me tell you how every Mira will play after that buff: do blood moves constantly, take advantage of how powerful those moves are to set up frequent command grabs, use the massive white life that builds to do a one-chance into her powerful level 4 damage ender, rinse and repeat. Also nobody would play anyone but Mira because a buff that huge, even if it was half the blood health, would be so extreme as to invalidate any reason to play any other character if you wanted to win.

I’m not gonna address all of your responses because like…dude. Cmon.

Just think 100 white life…one chance break with mira. That’s like…what is it…70% damage? If not more?

So just going off the one chance break here. If mira does say…, Light manual xx reaping ender (no meter) she does 63% easily. Enjoy your one chance break damage mira.