Guest Characters Discussion *ULTRA THREAD*

First off I like to say I’m one of the dudes who opted for no guest characters in KI in the old forums.

But I have to say I think IG/MS pulled Rash off beautifully. Yes, he is too goofy to fit the KI universe but I see him as a fun and cool bonus char that is in the game for fun and laughs. He fits and is a nice nod to the old school days, a Rare IP as KI was. So he works IMO as a guest char in KI I have to admit. And he’s fun to play and I love all the nods to the old game.

Now I hope they only put one more guest in. I’ll be ok with that. And I guess I would like Joanna Dark take that place even though she is similar to Orchid when it comes to her background and profession. But whatever they put in, it should be a Rare character or old school char from the arcade days. Not a fan of the idea to put Master Chief or Gears of war characters in.

The rest of the S3 cast I hope is (given it will be 9 total)
Gargos
Tusk
Kim Woo
Eyedol
New Original
New Original
New Original

This is what I predict and no I’m not worried guests will take away slots from new/returning chars except 2. Hope I’m right.

I hope you’re right too!

Not worried at all. Rash fits well with the creatures of KI and tropes being a frog. Honestly, pretty much anything can fit in KI looking at the overall roster.

Can I point out here that guest characters ARE new characters? If you had never heard of BattleToads, and IG told you that Rash was a product of radiation runoff from UltraTech’s labs where they were creating Fulgore, would you be as mad? No, because then you would see it as a TMNT parody, which is very KI. Get over yourselves.

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Am sure it’s going to be more than two, why would they make a big deal about there being guest characters at the reveal in games com if it was only two.

Anyways I also am in the anti MC boat, mostly because their are far more creative and visually interesting characters to pick. Heck Splosion Man, the head from my avatar, would be a better choice. Make it happen IG, Splode all over me.

I’m trying not to bother contributing further to a conversation that is basically a “duck season!” “Rabbit season!” argument…

But it has been suggested that adding a character that certain people don’t like will drive people away from the game. I think it may be true for a small number of people, but it’s likely that those characters will draw in far more people who are fans of the original game.

I am not a Halo fan either, and I have no interest in seeing Master Chief in this game. But if 1/10th of the Halo fans decided it made it worthwhile to pay even a few dollars to play KI? That would be a huge win for the game. So we will see what happens. The Spartan in DoA is often thrown around as an example of a horrible guest character, but the character model was excellent, and she came with a fantastic background that captured the essence of Halo. And the character was well balanced as a fighter in that game, with a different fighting style than other characters. It was really well done. As far as plot, DoA has an even thinner, weirder plot than KI so (not to beat a dead horse) who cares? In a game where a girl shaped like that and wearing those clothes can WIN a fight, what difference does it make who or where they are fighting?

So, if you don’t like guest characters, obviously that’s just something you aren’t going to like. But to me, as long as the character is unique, well made representing both their own “origin” and a cool new addition to the cast, then I for one am not going to get too hung up on where they came from.

Nobody would care because that character would be part of KIs universe unlike rash that’s never gonna appear in future KIs

That’s my point though. People are saying that Rash doesn’t fit the game. He fits perfectly. He’s just another wierdo thing in a game full of wierdo things

He could become permanent. “could” Like Yoshimitsu of Soul Calibur

We have only 2 returning regular cast members and possibly 2 old bosses, to go. I can see Gargos being the last character of S3.

So that leaves 5-4 open character slots.

Any guest character IS a new character and technically, we didn’t get Kim Wu or Tusk in S1 or S2 because we had Sadira, Aganos, Kan Ra, Hisako, Omen, ARIA and to a degree Shadow Jago…

… So;

(no)

Please don’t give IG ideas.

Sadira, aganos, omen, Hisako, kan ra and aria are now part of the KI universe. Something the guests will never be.

First of all I was always anti guest characters but I’m not gonna hate the game because of it. I even give mg suggestions on who should be a guest because I love this game and since guest characters are already confirmed it makes more sense to me to suggest some instead of being upset about it. And I like rash and I think that every character no matter if guest or not will be implemented in a cool way and be fun to play. I just prefered original characters that’s it.

I made this point in another thread but I would like to have a discussion about it.

In my opinion guest characters are a good financial decision but a bad one regarding the loyal fans of KI and here is why.

I noticed that not just me but most of the people, even ones that want guest characters would really really hate having some specific characters, some so much that they would lose some interest in the game, some to an extreme degree that even threat to stop supporting the game. The main problem is that the list of characters that are a no go is usually bigger than the list of characters that this particular person would like.

For instance I would hate if its a character from a movie, a character from another fighting game, anything anime, and in general characters that aren’t owned by Microsoft (a few exceptions here). So I have a list of maybe 10 characters that I would like and literally thousands that I would hate. Others will have other lists that follow the same model but changing the names.

Chances are I’m gonna be disappointed by the guest even if maybe not all of them. Chances are everyone is gonna be disappointed because of 1-2 characters. You could say the same about original character sure, not everyone likes all characters in KI but its easier to accept them because they are part of it unlike the guest characters.

Even if 80% of the players would be in favor of guests, chances are the majority of them is gonna be disappointed in the end anyway.

Like I said I think its a good financial decision because there might be a lot of people buying the game because character X or Y is in it. But for us the loyal fans, the majority of us will be upset because of the characters they choose to have in it.

What do you guys think? Am I making a good point? Or am I crazy? Or both?

Nah, I think you’re on point with pretty much all of this. If they add Master Chief or Marcus Fenix for example, some might enjoy them. I personally would loathe the idea - they’re both poorly written, stock one-dimensional characters in their respective franchises, with no potential for varied or unique movesets that would fit in KI. Literally the only reason would be to attract more “casual” fans to KI. But entire franchises have been ruined by going down the “casual money” rabbit hole, at the expense of the core fanbase. Why should KI go down this route, when it’s been shown that these casual fans typically don’t stick around long-term, and when KI at this point has just started to build a real solid identity of its own?

And like you say it can go both ways - Joanna Dark is one of the only characters being floated around right now that I think would be a decent fit for KI, but others might hate the idea just as much as I hate the idea of someone from Halo or Gears. No matter which guests are added, you’re going to alienate some of your core fanbase, it’s unavoidable. Some might say “Well, you don’t have to buy the characters”. Well, yeah, but we’ll still have to fight them online, and see others play them on stream. They’ll still be a definitive part of our KI experience.

Also, traditionally guest characters in FGs have been horribly broken and overpowered on release (looking at Netherrealm here primarily), or garbage tier like Link in Soul Calibur II. There’s a fine balance that doesn’t seem to be struck too often, which seems to me to show that the developers do it primarily for financial purposes and not because they have an interesting vision for these characters.

And speaking of Soul Calibur, the one series that is probably most known for having guests; Link/Spawn/Heihachi, Yoda and Darth Vader, Ezio from Assassin’s Creed. Did these characters go over well with the core fans? Did they help Soul Calibur maintain a solid fanbase? I’m not a massive SC fan by any means but even I can tell you that the series isn’t exactly a picture of health. Not that having guests is the main cause of that, not at all, but in terms of retaining casual fans alongside its core base (which like I’ve said is typically the main reason to include guests) that series has failed, and failed hard.

So for me the question becomes, do IG and MS have solid gameplay ideas for these guests that we now know they’re adding to KI? Are they adding characters primarily based on whether or not they have designs that will fit the KI universe and will add new and inventive playstyles to the already wildly varied cast? Or are they just adding Rare/MS characters simply because they can, or because they’re chasing after casual $$$?

If it’s the former, then I’m still totally unconvinced that guest characters are the way to go but I’d have faith that IG would at least have the ability to do something fresh and exciting with them. If it’s the latter then I’ll be thoroughly disappointed, and like others have said, I feel it would really put something of a downer on what is one of my favourite franchises. I’ve mentioned it in other threads, but if this game becomes some form of “Xbox All-Stars” crossover franchise (that’s extreme hyperbole at this point, but it’s certainly a possibility) then they’ll have lost me as a player and a fan.

But I certainly hope that doesn’t happen. It’d be a shame for KI to have come so far out of 90s obscurity to create its own identity among today’s modern fighting games, just to devolve into a mashup of characters that have nothing in common with the series. Personally I’d be very interested to read some of IG’s thoughts on the matter.

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When it comes to this, I always try to think about when I started playing fighting games (OK, I am a married 31 years old, so you know it was SFII :smile:). At that time, everything was about smashing buttons like crazy trying to make something interesting.
Nowadays I check my sister’s friends (millennials, which basically play League of Legends and HearthStone) and they like to play KI (more than other Xbox One games) because of the casual play it enables them to play, like just pushing random buttons and doing combo stuff or being shocked by the fact Sadira becomes black when in instinct mode (like that famous male-killler spider).
For those guys, having reference to guest characters from their culture, like Rash may be to me or Master Chief may be to them, is beneficial to the game, from my point of view. More young people joining the community is always good for us.
What do you think?

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SC has problems that are unrelated to guest characters. The game widely regarded as the best in the series (SC II) had guests on each of the three consoles - and they were good characters. The controversial star wars characters in SC IV undoubtedly sold lots of copies and made that game more popular than it otherwise would have been. SC V flopped, but not because of Ezio. The game got slower, more complicated and the new characters just didn’t contribute much. Everything about SC V was worse than SC IV…

I think the points you make are all very good, but looking at the quality of Rash I would say that they have good ideas for how to do a guest character right. As long as the characters are solid additions to the cast, not cheap throwaways just inserted to do fan service to other games, I think the guest characters are going to be fine.

I don’t doubt that the characters will be well made. I actually think they are gonna be great for what they are. People wont complain because of how they play but rather who was chosen to be part of KI.

I definitely agree that SCV was doomed to failure anyway. It just wasn’t a very good game for a number of reasons. But my main point in bringing up SC was that the series didn’t do a good job of retaining the casual fanbase, despite guest characters in that series being solely made to do just that. My non fighting game playing friends who played SCII and IV had no idea that there even was an SCV, for instance. Basically, guest characters aren’t going to be some magic bullet that attracts the casual fan and keeps them interested. If someone needs a generic Spartan or Scorpion or whoever to be interested in KI, they’re probably not going to stick around long term.

And yes, you nailed it with that last point. I’d wager that IG want to keep everything under wraps and have everyone guessing as to who the next guest might be, but it would be nice to have some reassurance that they’re not going to be, as you say, adding cheap throwaways made purely to serve fans of other games.

The thing is though that of course IG/MS cares about the players that stick to the game for a long time but if you have a guest character that he alone sells 500’000 copies of the game (exaggeration) and quit after 1 day in the end of the day it wont matter. People that would stick around will stick around anyway but they sold 500’000 copies that they wouldn’t sell otherwise. Might be a good decision financially, but I don’t know if its one with the loyalists in mind.

Nope it want guest