But you forget that IT is a opener and with assist on the don’t need to learn the Motions as simply hitting a Button you want and bomb linker/auto double and if the timing is down Manual, with that being said they can rely on doing something over and over again with in the same game, due making it more likely to stick into one play style and not evolve their skill set.
I guess I was a bit unclear on that, what I mean is that fighting game s have always been hard because of their game play and rules they go by.
FDCF, DP, QCB, QCF, D~,FK are just some of the things that people like me and you Study and had to understand and learn, and with that we agreed that we had to respect it.
however I get what you are saying, But I kick ■■■ in SF4 and I do well in KI, Heck I beat outkreyd and I did hold my one very well in killer tier battles, But I’m guessing that a ‘to each their own point’ with to that I can agree.
Riptior Jump in : hm 7/10 -given tail hk Jump in fire HP jump- Oh 10/10, Like only with Jump ins.
Isn’t the option select somewhat available without Combo assist. It isn’t the same but still there. Just do the manual and the dp motion. If it hits,press punch, if it doesn’t don’t press punch and do the heavy laser sword. Not the same thing but still a similar thing I guess?
I really like this feature, as I’ve said - I think it will be great for newer players, and in particular I think it would help my wife enjoy the game a lot more!
But I can understand the concerns that some have put forward about the CAM feature in Ranked - to a point. I like what some have said about preventing its use in Ranked matches once you reach Killer status. Since that is supposed to be when the “real” competition in Ranked KI begins, I’d love to hear the thoughts of those who seem 100% in on this feature. Again, please bear in mind that I DO really like this feature! I just question whether those who have displayed enough aptitude to reach Killer should be able to keep CAM as a failsafe even if their drops are extremely rare.
There’s been a lot of back and forth, and I honestly think this discussion (while good to have) is currently bringing out some of the worst in our community and we’re being divided. If you would like to respond, please do so directly to this post or quote it, so that I can easily find your responses. The thread is far too long to skim through now, and I’m off to a holiday party!
“Extremely rare” is a bit of an understatement. I don’t think I’ve dropped a linker in an entire year of playing. Autos are already one button so that hasn’t changed.
Point 1 pretty goes the same for the majority of people I play. I like to play people as good as or better than me. Likewise, they just don’t drop their linkers and when they want an opener they get it.
So given point 1 and 2, it really changes nothing between me and the people I play against. My experience hasn’t changed, and the experience of new players has gotten better. Great.
So basically the game is only changed for people playing at a low enough level where they still drop openers and linkers. We’ve already had this whole debate regarding “mashing first-frame combo breakers”, it went something like. People wanted some kind of penalty or restriction on something that only worked at low level play.
Take this common argument for example:
The above is generally the most oft repeated anti-CAM argument around.
“I’m suddenly losing because my opponent isn’t dropping combos”
I don’t know what else to say. If the only thing that distinguishes one’s skill from that of a five year old is not dropping your linkers and openers, then how are you good are you? Certainly not enough to disparge a tool meant to get new people into the game. I can say this with confidence “None of the people who are better than me (and there are MANY) are better than me because they don’t drop their openers/linkers”
The answer to everyone’s grievance is simple, if you don’t like combo assist mode, then why not just get good enough that you are playing at the level where it is completely irrelevant?
Please do not quote me if you dont understand what the point is. This has nothing to do with the actual combo…this has to do with the special move to start the combo is being done for them by pressing a button 2x. 1st press is the normal kick action, 2nd press starts an assisted special move.
Im not trying to argue…like you are. your just being hard headed. IM stating the facts… this has nothing to do with the middle of a combo and dropping it. This has everything to do with STARTING A COMBO with no skill required
and please stop judging everyones skill based of comments… you have no clue how good i am. let me guess… your next post is FT 10?? huh?? FT 10…come on… give me a break dude… your just trying to bully every one by saying they arent good because they dont agree with you.
Starting a combo is not hard at all. So yes, the exact same logic applies
I don’t miss openers.
My opponent doesn’t miss openers.
If you can’t beat a 5 year old who never misses an opener how are you expected to beat an average grown player who never misses an opener? I can’t think of any of the regular people I play with who miss their openers.
Also for Sabrewulf I find that extremely detrimental as I still prefer to do tick throws on hit. So CAM actually takes away an extra option for me.
its not hard for you…it is hard for a 5 year old without combo assist. And Im not talking saberwulf here…we are talking Shago and Omen.
But there is no need to argue… you have no clue what your talking about…your just trying to bully your way into this conversation. If no one agrees with you then they are wrong.
The final lesson is easy compared to other fgs. I can do it easily. Do you want a video of me doing it for you? If you lose to your five year old just because your five year old has combo assist,I recommend you try to learn combo breaking and better neutral. Also ypu are losing because your five year old can do a special after a normal? Try blocking and punishing the unsafe opener since he is using Shago and Omen.
I’m simply stating, mid level players don’t drop their openers, their linkers, or their autos. They just don’t drop what CAM allows them to do.
So if you lose against a low-level player with CAM, then you will fare absolutely no better against any mid-level player without CAM on, because even without CAM everything that the mode lets you do anyway is easy as breathing for those experienced.
Here’s my actual experience:
My roommate could not play KI before. Combo assist came out, he got excited to learn the game.
Me and him play now.
He has not won a single game against me. Not one. And he’s 26
Here’s the difference: I’m quite accustomed to playing against people who don’t drop anything that CAM would do for them. It just doesn’t make a difference. So when playing against my roommate and he suddenly had this ability, nothing changed for me. I had to rely on the same set of skills that I win/lose based off.
Losing against someone as a direct result of having CAM when they wouldn’t otherwise means your previous victory relied on an element existing- an element that does not exist in higher level play- dropping dead simple openers.
Actually, you won’t get the option select. System prioritizes the complex inputs. So if you do a blocked manual into a DP, you will get a blocked move into a DP.
The system goes
Did they do a correct input for a special move?
Did they press a button that CAM will allow them to get a move from.
in that order
If for whatever reason that’s not the case this is a bug not a flaw in CAM, as they clearly stated their intention was that complex inputs have priority.
EDIT
I think I see what you are saying. For CAM you don’t have to input the DP you can just input f.HP. That’s a valid point. I misread.
I won’t try to argue about how many reverse cases of “bad results” from this happening instead of OS’s (Sabrewulf block strings turning into uber-negative specials ) I think this will be shown by how many pros are using combo assist come the next major tournament. And I’m quite confident this will just not show up in Winter Brawl top 8 at all.
Still, I feel you’re trying to “Hunt for bugs” and “hunt for OS’s” all of which can be patched without removing the overall mechanic. Like the Jago Windkick thing. It’s easy to pick out bugs and say the whole thing should be removed rather than fixed to work better, because really you just don’t like the idea of new players having it easy.
Believe me, I think alot of people would have liked seeing season one->two patch notes.
I think the mode is a good idea as it can still let the players that need it get their foot in the door to compete, but an assist that bypasses mechanics needs some kind of reasonable trade-off for it’s use. It should not allow you to do everything and more. It is not longer an “assist” at that point. (I don’t think not being able to link jabs is enough). That’s my only problem with it as implemented.
There just needs to be a little bigger trade-off for the benefit you gain. And there is a benefit to using this in some regard, and that is the controls, otherwise it wouldn’t exist. Just keep this mode, but give a better reason to graduate to normal controls, even if small so those not using it don’t feel like they’re doing more work for no reason.
Just tweak some aspect of damage, KV meter, shadow meter, or something in exchange for using this. It doesn’t have to be huge, but it should be something. If you need this in order to be able to play you probably aren’t going to notice a small cost of use in another area. I think that’s reasonable.
Again, the idea is good, it just needs more balancing.
Assuming you and your clone have very little knowledge of fighting games in general (not just KI), yes, the CAM version of yourself will be at advantage. He will get more damage out of his combos and turn most hits into combos whereas the non-CAM version will probably not do either of those things very well at first. The point of the mode is to make things easier for beginners.
Assuming you and your clone have a lot of experience with other SF games, but you just picked up KI, then the CAM version of yourself will be at an advantage for a day or two, then it will not be an issue.
In the case of your son, CA is absolutely an advantage, there’s no question about it. That’s why the mode exists.
Beginner players do a lot of jumping in neutral because they don’t understand why jumping is often a bad idea. All they know is you are not standing next to them, and jumping lets them get closer to you WHILE attacking at the same time, so it seems like something I should probably do.
CAM is not trying to teach beginners good fighting game fundamentals… this is a very difficult problem which things like the dojo try to solve. CAM is there so that if you land a hit on someone, cool stuff happens and you think it’s so awesome that you might eventually try to learn more of the game later. CAM will never let a beginner beat an expert player, you’re right, but this is actually a good thing.
For the hundreth time…IM not against CAM for the reasons most are. IM not against it at all for beginners to come to KI…Om only stating that an advanced player will find a way to use it to there advantage. You can not deny that there is going to be someone that can find a way to make them more advanced.
Im sure there are many working on utilizing it right now until it either taken away or a restriction placed on it.
Dont group me in to the opinions of those that are stating other things…this is my one and only statement about CAM
Im totally for it being used for beginners and new comers to the game…bring them on! Im tired of SF and MK getting allt he glory…I want more KI players!!! But I dont want more players finding loop holes, glitches and advantages to advance there Learderboards, ect…
*** WHy is no one discussing Ultra assit and shadow linker assist?
For the OS’s those can just be patched out if they’re an issue. People are equating every bug that came out with 2.13 as something inseparable with CAM itself.
LycanNaryko found a valid OS with it, but saying CAM should be excluded from competitive play rather than fixed?
I mean, we let Sadiras unbreakables rock for tournament after tournament. But rather than ban Sadira she was fixed.
In spite of all that, I still am very certain most of the players at tournament will opt out of CAM due to risk of getting a move they don’t want.
As I keep repeating, Winter Brawl is coming up. If advanced players really do find a way to take advantage of it, surely we’d see them using it at WB.
I’m a decent player been playing since launch but not tourney standard by ant means was rank 24/26 before the change.
I’m going to go back to front as it can be customised starting with assisted ultras.
Ultra- Why would I ever take it off ? It is now a instant ultra, I have no reason to ever take it off it makes ultras easier especially for the characters with dp motion ultras. It’s not that I can’t do it but it makes it easier so why not.
This is great for new players to finish a game in style and feel good about it and doesn’t really effect mid and higher level players.
Ender- As above really. I have it on just for the fact that I use the motions for every ender and the shortcut for DP why wouldn’t I? No reason not to, stop the occasional accidental fireball ender instead.
Again great dor new players makes little difference for mid and higher level players IMO.
Linker-I already have this turned off, I have no reason to have it on, infact it actually made it hareder for me to use combo trait. IMO, yes it makes the game easier but I can’t see a problem with this really.
This is great for new players and doesn’t effect mid to higher level players much if at all IMO.
Opener- Now this is where I can see some problems personally. Hit confirms are so much easier more so for some characters than others which does effect things at a low and mid level.
This is the big one though there are some juggles that can be done now that (only tested shago, but can imagine there is more characters) I certainly couldn’t do without combo assist as I tested them thinking they would work when he came out and could not perform them. I’m not saying they were impossible but I certainly could not do them. The problem is the instant fireball after a button in a juggle it allows me to get things off it that I couldn’t before. This has to give an advantage to someone who has it on over someone who has it off…So.
I will be keeping opener on. Great for new players. A big advantage to medium level playes and a small advantage to high level players in some situations IMO.
These are just my opinions from things I have seen and tested myself.
So in summary-
This mode is great for new players and keeping them interested in the game, all for that. It can give an advantage to medium level players who I think it will effect the most.
I think it’s a great idea but needs more testing and some tweeking. As I don’t see much or any downside only pluses. Especially as you can customise to your needs.
You and I agree on almost everything when it comes to KI, so I take what you’re saying very seriously. I agree that CAM is a huge advantage for people who can’t do openers. That’s kind of the point as @infilament says. But since I’m already good at opening combos it isn’t going to give me an advantage when I play the game and, like you, I don’t see this as a problem. I would much rather have interesting fights against my unskilled 7 year old than sit there hoping he hits HP and finally kills me. For him, it’s definitely an advantage and I’m glad he has it.
As far as pros and leaderboard climbers using it to their advantage, I’m guessing at some point someone will find a way. But from my point of view these people are exploiting all kinds of things that I either can’t or won’t so why should CAM be any different?
Everybody’s getting very heated and that’s probably not helping us all communicate. Why don’t we all just see how it plays out. If you see all the pros using CAM at the KI cup (I will be hugely surprised) but then we will know that it is changing the high level game. Remember, like all the other aspects of the game this can be patched and tweaked as they go. So why don’t we all just wait and see?
So I noticed no one is talking about ultra assist except for @Rolly2891 … dont you guys think that when someone is in danger , now all they have to do is hit 3p 2 x and its game over? there is no chance for a missed DP motion, … its strictly 2 button presses and if you catch your opponent missing the block its game over.
Im not saying this is a bad thing…but why not ever turn it off? Its like easy fatalities in MKX
) I think this will be shown by how many pros are using combo assist come the next major tournament. And I’m quite confident this will just not show up in Winter Brawl top 8 at all.