General Raam Kryll Rush Change I would like to see

As is I think several versions of his kryll rush are pretty pointless, I would like to see this move have alot more varied use on hitting the opponent since kryll rush is a big risk and foes should be punished thoroughly for getting hit by it.

First off I would allow the Light version of the move to remain exactly the same so you get the standing advantage mixup but I would change up the other two versions.

Medium version is still slower but instead of a standing mixup raam picks up the opponent and throws them into a hard knockdown state so you can apply a varied hard knockdown mixup (doesnt apply kryll). (similar to zangief running bear grab)

The heavy version being the slowest causes raam to push the opponent to the corner with his shoulder causing the opponent to wall splat but ultimately leaving Raam not close enough to apply mixups or combo (its more in footsie range) and leaving both you and the foe even, this allows Raam to gain a great position screen wise but not so much mixup wise for landing this risky move (doesnt apply kryll). (Similar to Hugo’s Meat Squasher)

The new shadow version can do all three depending on which button combination you hit, LM does the standing mixup, MH does the hard knockdown mixup and LH does the corner positioning version. It is now throw invincible.

This would make landing this risky move even more rewarding by giving raam players a variety of ways to take control of the match and ultimately would make several matchups alot more doable while being fair/making raam more fun.

I feel like applying kryll and giving you a hard KD or full corner carry would be too much. While I appreciate the added tools, I think they’d become too strong if applied together with the kryll.

Id just give it to the light version then, the kryll that is.

Yeah, I could probably get behind that.

Light version +4 and kryll poison effect, medium version hard KD and heavy version for corner carry. All still keeping the kryll armor.

Although I also feel that if kryll rush remained the same as it is, but was throw inv up until active frames it’d be fine as is.


Yeah… I dunno about all that. The versions are already differentiated by startup and distance covered. Punishing poorly spaced fireballs or pokes in neutral are the function, and Kryll + a mixup is reward for connecting with KR, and it works well to that extent. I think if the armor lasted into the grab attempt itself (during, but not after the active frames, of course), KR would be perfect.

((EDIT: Maybe throw invincibility would be awesome, but I don’t know if that’s a balanced opinion or my own personal bias. I certainly wouldn’t balk at it!))

HKD into mixup is already achieved by Grab, Reversal, and HKD Ender. The latter two provide both Kryll and HKD, while being enabled as options from the KR mixup.

Wall Splat is achieved by Splat Ender. Depending on positioning, this can also be enabled through the current KR mixup. A forward moving special that achieves a splat and pristine positioning is a bit much, in my opinion.

I agree that KR could be a little more reliable, but I don’t think successful connection should grant a suite of incredible opportunities that are already afforded by his other options, and presently enabled by the mixup opportunity KR provides as is.

EDIT2: Don’t get me wrong, as a former Hugo myself, I miss Meat Squasher. I just don’t think RAAM needs it.

Id say its the riskiest move in his arsenal, the reward should be great for landing it imo especially the slower versions, it also makes you want to use the shadow version more so you can get a faster version of the normally riskier but more rewarding versions. I also love the variety it brings to the move’s utility in general, not to mention it would help him corner his worst matchups if he can just land the heavy one (although he will still have to earn the mixup opportunity while the opponent is cornered)

I guess that’s where our opinions differ.

I do agree that it’s the riskiest move in his arsenal. However, I think the reward is already REALLY REALLY good - being +4 in your opponents face, with Kryll application is AMAZING. I would rather see the move gain a little in terms of reliability as opposed to changing the reward structure (all of which you’ve mentioned are granted by succeeding with your followup mixup).

EDIT: Maybe a little extra corner-push on contact with KR would be cool. As it is now, you pretty much resolve where you made contact. If RAAM could get a couple steps forward before resolution, that’d be a really sick middle-ground, in my opinion.

At this point my only wish for kryll rush is that they fix it when used against teleports, because it’s ridiculous the way as it is now. If you use a kryll rush and the enemy teleports behind you, RAAM simply stops the rush and try to grab the air in front of him standing completely open. Or they fix this with an autocorrect that make he turns and grab the opponent on his back or fix it letting him finish the rush going far away from the teleporter.

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I don’t see the problem with this. KR shouldn’t be used raw in neutral as a mobility option, especially against teleporters. The proximity-whiff caused by them teleporting behind you isn’t any different from whiffing it because they jumped.

I really can’t see it as the same. Kryll rush is the only real mobile attack in raam’s arsenal (I’m not even counting that Kryll shield with dash cancel because you must be an ace to relay on that move without making mistakes during an entire match against fb spammers), also what’s the point in have a movement that make you cross more then half of the screen and can easily avoided, if its not to give some mobility? It do not make any sense at all. When it whiffs because the enemy jumped from his front it’s fine, he still continues the running and finish it whiffing or miss de catch if the jump is done by the lasts frames. It would also be OK if the teleporter in front of him used it in the lasts frames of the rush. But as it is now? You may say it’s ok, for me, i would like to see some adjustments, if possible.

Would you at least agree that the reward for shadow kryll rush is way off? I definitely think something about that move needs to change because the reward is incredibly low compared to the resource spent and how difficult it is to land. The damage on it is actually lower than the meterless versions by about a percent, and it’s extremely reactable while not being all that good at punishing anything. I never really feel like it’s worth using.


The light version is good to counter people spamming jumps+normals (don’t work with multiple hits aerial attacks, shago dive kicks or rash wb), the medium can be used to counter fireballs in medium ranges with a good success rate, but the heavy one… it will only work if the enemy don’t know that it cannot be blocked or how to avoid it jumping.

@DEClimax On this, I do agree. EX Rush is virtually useless. I don’t have any ideas on how to go about fixing it, but I agree that it’s garbage. Both in reward and reliability. Might as well not exist, as it is now. The freeze doesn’t do it any favors either.

@KodaiYoung Yes, the move is mobile, but that doesn’t mean it should used for movement where you should be walking, dashing or jumping. If you’re trying to close the gap between you and the opponent, and you do so by throwing out KR, the opponent can stuff it every time. You should be using it as a reaction to projectiles or to try and stuff buttons in footsies (also beating jump+buttons). If the opponent had the opportunity to teleport behind you, they had the opportunity to jump and punish you anyway, because you were using the move carelessly. It’s purpose is not mobility, but long-range punishing. There is a nuanced difference, but a difference nonetheless. To this end, teleport behind and neutral jump are valid responses.

For comparative purposes, you don’t see Hugo’s throwing out Meat Squasher (EX or meterless) mid-screen at random and expecting it to work. There is a degree of conditioning the opponent to stand still before that becomes an option. How is this fundamentally different?

They’d have to either make it a good bit faster, or juice up the reward for it a LOT. For a shadow grab with 21 reactable frames and pitiful damage I don’t think full corner carry would be unreasonable.


I’m inclined to agree. I can’t really think of a way to make it land more reliably, as by design it’s kind of screwed in that department (21 reactable frames, AND a freeze to make absolutely sure they see it coming)… so augmenting the reward would be the obvious route.

Full screen corner carry? I’m good with that.
HKD + Kryll? I’d be good with that too.

Either way, it needs better damage, AND improved utility. I like @KingOnimaru’s suggestions if we’re talking how to fix EX KR. Even the variant idea. Give the EX version variants for utility. That’d be sick.


I agree with this so hard. This really, really needs to be fixed. Let the man finish the charge.

@TheKeits @developers @FinchoMatic I don’t think some of these are bad ideas.

Personally whether these are added or not… I just want the move to feel like command throw. The fact that normal throws beat it and that projectiles. Knock him out of it while he’s in the actual animation for the grab just annoys me


I still think he should be able to send a small swarm of kryll at his opponents. The distance it flies to depends on the strength used. If the swarm hits it applies poison but at reduced amount of time when compared to KR, this way he could pressure his opponents to get in close to him but still be susceptible to major zoners like arbiters triple shot.

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I have no bearing on what gets put into the game… :x

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I love it when Raams come running at me with Kryl rush… its an advantage to me nearly 98% of the time. Only if I get caught slipping doesn it grab me and even so I just Invincible orda right out of it.

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