Gargos 3.3.1 Patch Changes Analysis

Not that there is TOO much to analyze, but I was just curious about the details of his Meter Gain changes, for example the change to Portal Punch meter gain, was it increased to match LP portal punch or decreased? I wasn’t able to compare to an unpatched version and I haven’t mained Gargos long enough to eyeball the difference. Edit: Just got a reply from Keits on Twitter, Portal Punch meter gain from Mp and HP was lowered to match Lp.

Also, 25% decrease on minion attack, doesn’t seem like a really significant change to me, how do you other Gargos loyalists feel? Do these changes warrant any significant change in our gameplay now that minions no longer pay for themselves after a few attacks? Discuss please! I love talking about my favorite character in KI. :slight_smile:

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Gargos gameplay hasnt change for me.
I dont like that the minions dont give meter anymore for one reason: they are projectiles. If my projectiles dont build meter why doble endokukens still do, or hails? I was expecting a reduction in the amount of meter that they give (especially the heavy attack of the blue minion) but i wont complain too much until see how the fight goes especially because i understand why they did this nerf.
The reduction of damage for the minions is fine for me, they are not a tool to make damage, they are supposed to just protect you.

The stoneskin nerf doesnt affect me. I tend to active instinct when i already have 2 minions out to protect them and myself. I never use the explosion to summon a minion and i believe there are still lot of ways to summon a minion in a safe way.

Im most upset by the removal of hard knockdown after explosion. Not so much for the free minion, but other utilities such as re-spacing or set-up.


Won’t change my game plan much, I don’t use minions often. So the damage and meter reduction don’t bother me. Stone skin nerf I was kind of concerned as I use it for defense. Trying it though not as bad as i thought. …so far. Get off me Riptor! Otherwise I think Gargos is still fine. Imo.

Edit @VictoryPrince year pretty much!

I dont dislike the changes. They encourages the close range fight once minions are out, and as far damage devil divide allows to get a minion and HDK, there are plenty of chances to get minions. If they change this, the non hdk on eruption could be a big change, cutting down the flow of minions.

Do your Shadow Endokukens build you meter?

Shadow moves as a rule don’t build you meter. Omen Shadow Meter gain is even turned off during Shadow Orbs.

Minion summon is a Shadow move.


The fight against good Wulf is going to be harder now. I used the instinct to keep enemies away at least for one second. By the way Gargos instinct is every time worst, next nerf we wont be able to explode if we broke bad some combo…

Yeah, I definitely see why the HKD was removed, and it makes perfect sense, so that gargos can’t get minions out on the field just by getting his assistant kicked.

What I don’t like is the fact that his instinct just got considerably worse thanks to the nerf, but he got nothing in return to make up for it =/ kinda feels like his instinct is too bad now compared to mostly everyone else’s, IMO.

Other than that, the meter gain from minion hits definitely had to go, and the dmg nerf isn’t relevant IMO, as minions aren’t there to actually do damage.

Why did he get nerfed? I loved enjoying the free wins because he was op. A nerf wasn’t needed…lel.


I dunno, despite its recent Nerf a Free Combo Break is nothing to sneeze at. Now it just follows the regular Breaker rules a little more closely.
And the armor is still really good, even at the cost of mobility. I’ve seen Gargos players take nasty advantage of it.

Over all I think that these adjustments are there to emphasize his need to stay on the offensive. Making his defense that much more barebones should help people take better advantage of their opportunities once they past his offence (offence which is still, even with the nerfs, really good).

Thing is, his defense was already the worst in the game before this nerf ^^’

The armor is obviously really good, but offensively unless he has you cornered you can just run and jump away and with his reduced mobility he’ll just waste his instinct trying to reach you, or be forced to explode to save it. Defensively it’s not all that good since it loses to grounded heavies and he can’t block. Now with a considerably worse explosion, I feel his instinct is very lacking, IMO.

But maybe he doesn’t need it? We’ll see how things shape up from here on out. Kinda feel like he should’ve gotten something in exchange for the explosion nerf that would increase the uses of his instinct, but maybe I’m just plain wrong =P


Played a few quick games you need to be fast, if you want to get minions out after eruption.

If your opponent is running away, doesn’t that put you in prime position to burst the stone skin and just keep up your regular offence with some instinct to spare? I mean, if they’re running away and actively giving you breathing room, that sounds like it’s in his favor to me.

I have a feeling that while this is patch is certainly going to hurt Gargos, he’s not doomed by any means. He gains less meter now, and his Instinct lost some potency, but the rest of his tool kit is still incredibly powerful.

Gargos’s instinct has two main uses IMO:

  1. Some breathing room on defense
  2. Making it very hard to hit him while a minion is also attacking

It’s not a zoning tool (very easy to run away from him and just block minions and build meter while he does nothing), and it’s not really that great of a reversal, even though you will need it as a reversal sometimes. Where you really should use it is to summon a minion, get within half screen, then pop it. Frustrate the opponent with jump MP, command grab, and so on, and dare them to try and survive the high startup and recovery of a heavy attack while minions are also attacking.

Unlike other instincts in the game, it’s not exceptionally multi-purpose (pop it on defense, on offense, during a mixup, whenever). It’s got a very small select few uses but they’re pretty decent.


But bursting on block from afar doesn’t really help you. What it does is you just wasted half your remaining instinct so you could get back your regular neutral game. That’s not good, it’s just a least bad outcome than getting stuck on the other end of the screen and watching your instinct wither away without being able to do anything.

What I mean to say is, right now, Gargos instinct is not only his only good defensive tool, it’s also gotten considerably worse. And offensively, it’s pretty lacking when compared to everyone else’s instinct.

I’m not saying he’s doomed, by any means ^^’ I’m just saying I think his instinct is too lacking right now. He doesn’t need to be bottom tier or anything of the sorts for me to think one of his tools could use a bit of a refresh, IMO.

Yeah, but it used to have the added use of guaranteeing that you’d get a minion out at least twice a match with a safe setup.

Now, I always felt that was pretty cheap, IMO. He shouldn’t be able to get minions out without generating a setup.

What I’m saying is, while I like that that option has been taken out. I also feel that his instinct lost a big part of its use, and it would’ve been more than fair if he had gotten something else in return, to give some more potential to his instinct activation. Like this it was a strict nerf, and not a soft one, to an instinct which wasn’t already anywhere near one of the best in the game, IMO.

From what I remember, @TheKeits said during the reveal stream his instinct was designed to give him weaknesses in addition to its benefits. This is unusual, yes, but it seems to be intentional. Gargos having an instinct that’s only useful situationally is part of what makes him an interesting character.

I think the additional benefit of the Free Minion(s) off of wakeup was too big of a power swing by the standard of most reversals in the game, as you said. And I think it was far too potent an option to leave in. There are characters who’ve had similar nerfs to their tools (Sabrewulf, Maya, and TJ come to mind) that lost huge parts of what gave them their power, but are still viable characters in the right hands.

This will be an adjustment period, but I still think that Gargos doesn’t necessarily need compensation for losing the Free Minions from rock burst. He’s still got enough tricks up his sleeve to be plenty frightening.

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Idk why but I always get a minion summon off of a J.HK, can’t remember right now for some reason but does J.HK have a Hard knockdown? No, right? I hate when these questions pop up when I’m not playing KI

No HKD, but it does push you opp pretty far away. Doubt he can punish you for the summon, but I also doubt you can summon in time to punish a moving special that hits your minion.

Dunno if I explained myself well enough xD what I mean is you shouldn’t be able to get a safe protected minion out after j.HK.

his instinct is one that should be used for pure offense

They took away the recapture for gorgos and I’m piss about that.