I am starting to come to the conclusion that eagle doesnt really have any matchups in his favor and I will explain why. I believe his tools are decent, but in comparison to other characters tools that are in the same area are better also they are rewarded alot more than eagle. The first thing that comes to mind and im sure the readers too is the bird. At best it is a nuisance, lets be honest. This isnt a bad thing for eagle because it is what seperates him from the rest but due to the games kv meter and combo mechanics it keeps him from capitalizing? in a meaningful way. His projectiles while again decent are out shined by other characters and on top of this he has a limited amount. For a character who has his projectile as his fierce punch his arrow is only +19 on hit and +0 on block for minimal damage and arguably the worst meter build projectile in the game. Compared to Arbiter ( who has access to 2 heavy command normal that is +12 on hit +6 on block, which links to close standing forward, which can THEN link to standing short) his projectile does WAY more damage, is faster, and destroys projectiles without being charged. Eagles scattershot knocks down which is good but is impractical anywhere other than fullscreen plus its -22 on block (WHAT). But this is where it gets tricky because he has rain shot (3.9 took away 4 frames of hitstun to solve corner rain loops😐). Honestly this depends on how you percieve this. To me it takes alot to set rain shot up properly and in most cases by the time I do this the oppenent has a bar of meter to spend because I practically gave them that bar by sniping them. About a third of the time the opponent blocks this by chicken guarding then im most likely have to react to this by using the forward wingspan followup to bounce off them so im not in their face minus. This is where Eagle starts being exposed as a gimick character, because he has a sub par nuetral game. His only low normals are his short, sweep, and low arrow shot ( which is a projectile). His bone whip command normal doesnt redeem him enough because it doesnt have the range as it seems, its slow, but it staggers so it still has some uses but you will barely use it because it will get beat out by other normals that are faster. Since Eagle has virtually no defensive options, his only plan is to attack, makes him sub par in the long run. Which is why he is perfect for me, he even replaced my long time main Cinder. He really only becomes a real threat in the corner but the same can be said just about every character, I mean when your stuck in the corner what are you going to do? Eagle needs some more command normals that move him backward like using the bone whip or a air down forward scatter shot. Something he is missing that would really make him worthwhile.
Although I see your points in this and there are very thought out, I’d have to disagree with your statement that he has no good MUs. Many of your statements are true, espiecally stating that he has a subpar neutral game, but combined with the eagle, almost any neutral position can become your turn to attack. Imagine if he had better normals + bird, the pressure for the opponent would just be too much. I don’t remember who but they said something along the lines of that Eagle was supposed to peck his opponent to death. I believe this statement to be true since although his projectiles aren’t the most rewarding, I feel like there supposed to be answers to what your opponent is trying to do. If your opponent tries to wake up->aerial shots, they try to zone->shattershot then get in for the attack. I rarely use his damage ender since his play style doesn’t call for big damaging payoffs, but rather chipping your opponent over and over until they eventually fall over. Just mixup after mixup after mixup and let me tell you, he has a lot of those with his screech and double jump. Eagle does extremely well against those with no wake up attack and can do well to neutral against most of the cast. They only problem is his defense really. Literally every eagle mirror is just to see who gets in a combo first. Whoever was on the aggression first will almost certainly win the round. I don’t think setups with aerial shots are that hard to pull off with combination with screech. Also his corner pressure is one of the best of the game, if you get in that corner you ain’t coming out. He is gimmicky but he’s still a good character that can abuse his safe approaches to really mess with the other cast members.
Sorry for the long rant btw
So is there hope for eagle in 3.9?
I believe so, he was great now, I don’t think his nerfs are too detrimental to his game plan.
I understand where this train of thought is coming from as you said Eagle pecks his opponents to death, which is true, but i still believe in this playstyle he at best has a 5-5 matchup. Just my opinion, but also where im coming from is that where a character like Cinder can essentially do the same thing, his payout is alot higher than Eagle. While it is true Eagle does have a tool for almost every situation, he still is lacking to where like Sadira, he would arc shot a arrow at Sadira and tbey would trade projectiles, she still gets a jump in attack on him. He would most likey wingspan out of there but leaving his arrow on the other side of the screen. Eagle seems good on paper, but his short comings greatly out weighs his advantages. Or maybe this is my frustration talking idk man why cant i be happy with a character like sabrewulf. ■■■■ would be so much easier
Well his whole game plan is to mess with the players mind more then other characters and not so much abuse something extremely good in his moveset. He’s a difficult character to use effectively so I see how you points are being made. Anyways great analysis. We should have a set sometime. Eagle vs Eagle. That would be nice especially since they’ve become a rare breed since the first week of his debut.
Gt: Wrath is Here hmu
After some time with Eagle, I’d like to give some MU specific tips for anyone to use to I’ve found along the way.
Jago: Best idea to zone. Let him come to you. His DP can baited with double jump
Saberwulf: Zone for your life! Once he’s on top of you your as good as dead! If you see him running, immediately use shadow slide, it’ll catch him 90% of the time.
Glacius: Zoning is surprising good against him. Keep his as far away so you don’t get hit by a truck
Thunder: Never use your arrows if he’s midscreen. DP is faster then you think. Low crush his DP when you can and stay on top of him. Run like hell if he gets close with double jump
Shago: Nothing special, play like normal
Sadira: Back HP is your best friend. AA for days. Use slide to get out of her pressure. Use bird crash after a M air blade demon, it’ll knock her to the other side of the map and zone until you have time for the bird to recover.
Orchid: Be careful of slide, scatter shots can be punished with yolo slides
Spinal: Don’t zone!
Fulgore: Never let him go. Don’t want him teleporting or it’ll be a rough time for you
TJ Combo: Nothing special here, abuse his lack of regular DP
Maya: Use arrows to counter any thrown daggers. Keep her away from them at all cost
Riptor: You can bait a shadow tail flip by jumping over the first hit and punishing her before she starts the other attacks
Kan-Ra- good matchup for you. Good at any range until he gains momentum
Omen: Good luck
Hisako: She’s surprisingly easy to zone. Only use charged arrows however, you can reaction punish teleport wall jump and dash with arrow or screech
Aganos:Please don’t get in a corner. Pray to the shadow lord if you do
Cinder:Let him come to you. AA if possible
ARIA: Punish her shotgun knee with slide. Use screech if necessary. Zone against blade. Punish any long range assist calls.
Kilgore: Zoning is anyone’s match, slightly in kilgore’s favor . Stay on top of him. Shadow missiles can be negated by screech, they’re completely useless in this matchup
Kim Wu: Hard MU. Screech pressure can be negated with counter, Need to find outer ways to keep her pressured
Arbiter: Keep him off the shield at all cost!
Rash: Just plain annoying. Be careful of shooting random arrows. They can be easily lost
Shin Hisako: Let her come to you. Play her own game of keep away. Knock her back rinse and repeat
Mira: Punish any bat attempts with arrows or shadow slide. Makes long range useless for her
Raam: Hit and run for your life. Zoning won’t kill him. Use double jump to get away when you can
Gargos: Keep him off the air with arrows, knock him down and pressure his bad defense
Eyedol: Use double jump to get in
These are just some random tips I could give. Use them as you wish
Edit: just some minor corrections
This two genuinely made me laugh loud xD
Among all these advices, which are good tips in general, one called my atention:
This is gold. Most people react to Wulf running with shadow projectiles, which is a mistake because he can low profile most of the projectiles with a LK while running, but this is very clever. Can he somehow win the trade with MK, or he loses it anyway?
Eagle loses it, HOWEVER I’ve learned to immediately use bird crash if I see the jump. It will trade and you’ll have better positioning. The slide however beats any other option.
Eagle’s neutral is actually quite good. Never underestimate the strength of being able to come and go as you please in a fighting game. Eagle never has to be anywhere he doesn’t want to be, and he’s well equipped to keep most opponents in the spaces he prefers. That’s all any character can ask for in neutral. Couple it with the strong okizeme he gets when he inevitably lands that first hit, and you have a character who is quite strong at managing the flow of a given match. That very strength is why his defense has to be so bad, and why even his instinct isn’t built for comebacks.
Eagle’s weaknesses are so pronounced because his tools for neutral control and pressure are so top-notch. With time and a dedicated specialist, I think he could likely be quite overwhelming.
Now that I had a better understanding of Eagle, I retract my previous statement regarding his neutral game. It is extremely good however he has trouble mid screen, where his normals don’t reach that far and his arrows aren’t the best idea. Doesn’t mean he’s defenseless there as his bird can help him with that. Fwd MP really is his best friend as many of his normals are kinda stubby. He’s such untapped potential and I’m learning something new with him each day. Can’t wait to see what people come up with in terms of his game plan.
Looking forward to one day being a top notch specialist
Just drop the controller is probably a better idea.
Can you lead me to any good Omens? I know @FallofSeraphs76 has a good one but I’m going against him in the tourney so it’s not a good idea to ask him now.
Dul is definitely the better Omen. I did tinker with him, but that was back in S2. It’s been a long time playing him. I’d definitely ask Dul.
How are we going against each other? i still have to play Dark lord chuckles and you have to play Zythe
I thought you won? I’m confused rn. I already played him and won its in the thread. Sorry for any assumptions
Ah… yesterday the your match bracket wasnt updated. I still have to fight Dark lord.