Dragon Punch Motion


#81

Because doing a dive kick right above the ground is incredibly strong. You can mix up between empty jump throw, empty jump low, and vary the block stun and timing of your jump attack to make defending against all the options really difficult. You can fake an empty jump and catch people flinching with a super delayed dive kick, for instance. Height restrictions play an important role both on the way up and the way down.

Don’t really know how to respond to this. If you want to equate “random” with “sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t” without considering the source, then… I suppose? But if you consider the fact that each player can improve their skill and eliminate the random factor entirely, then you have to search for a different word than random, because that implies a lot of things that aren’t true about DPs.


#82

Hm. How do you feel about Hisako and her counter? So imagine that, except that now her counter behaves as if she’s in instinct all the time and it also beats throws.

Basically, it makes offense super scary, because at any time the opponent has a one-button “STOP” sign they can employ. Frame traps become extremely hazardous to even attempt because of the DP threat (“just stop pressure to block” is the answer, but then you probably wind up with pretty timid play all around), and lots of options become beatable by “I’ve got my finger on DP - try something”.

To be clear, you could make a 1-button DP game that played well and was balanced. Rising Thunder did it by putting all the specials on MMO timers, such that after using a special move you wouldn’t have access to it again for a few seconds. DP type moves typically had the longest cool downs, because again, they are special moves that beat any option that is not block, and that is very strong. Another way would be to have a system like SFV’s crush counter, where whiffing a DP will more often than not just get you killed.

On removing buffer windows, I think you still just run into the issue where newer/less skilled players won’t be able to get the input consistently (because OG games were quite strict with input windows). So skilled players who don’t have issues with doing consistent DP’s now still get consistent DP’s, and now new players just have a different complaint because they can’t get the (simple) input to come out when they want it. The underlying issue of “bad/new players can’t do DP’s” doesn’t really get solved at all.


#83

On the actual topic of execution in fighting games, there are lots of varying viewpoints, although I think one thing is provably true; execution is intimately tied to strategy in basically all real-time games. Different fighting games have tried to lower execution barriers, but to a T they’ve all made the strategy less interesting when there is no threat of dropping things in the clutch (I don’t consider KI in this league, because I think KI’s execution is relatively difficult just because of its high pace and mental effort required to separate all the strategies).

Fighting games aren’t turn-based games. Execution is a very big, necessary part of the genre. You’ll have to make your peace with that and practice some stuff, or pick some characters with more basic gameplans, but even then you won’t fully remove the need for good execution. Lots of people mistakenly think (or wish it were true that) fighting games are only about the mental side of things – making the correct decisions, studying the frame data, etc, and then it all falls into place easily once playing matches. But it’s definitely not true. Requiring execution brings a lot of very interesting and good aspects of competitive games to the forefront.


#84

Yes… YOU could… I know I couldn’t.

Actually every game has an execution requirement… including Chess… after all you can’t play if you can’t move the pieces.

Different games are obviously going to demand different levels of Dexterity but for whatever reason its only Fighting Games that insist on being Difficult on Execution.


#85

Whaaaa… ? Have you tried playing/watching competitive Starcraft, or CS: GO, or Rocket League, or anything? All these games are absolutely chock full of difficult execution way beyond what a beginner needs to learn to have fun with the game. FGs can have difficult execution (although I’d argue many modern games outside of Tekken have the easiest execution the genre has ever seen), but they are nowhere near the only genre of games with difficult execution.


#86

I’m having trouble with negative edge lately. Whenever I left the game for some days or more I’m getting negative input shadows that really annoy me. I wish I could just turn that off honestly. This is a free shadow counter for my opponent while I’m trying to pressure them. If I hold the medium button before going for the special move with the light I may avoid this, but I feel it’s going to mess up my overall muscle memory so I’m just trying to get it clean, but don’t know why is giving me so much trouble these days.

I’m pretty sure you have also seen some Wulfs doing an eclipse and then getting a shadow eclipse that makes it an opener- ender you can break. It’s a common mistake, and it can happen from time to time. Though, I’m talking about something else due to negative edge that can connect sometimes and look nice, but if it doesn’t it can lead to a punish (well, only if they have shadow).


#87

Again… the same can be achieved with Jumping Normals… because thats petty much what the Cammy’s Divekick is on the way down… now if you could it while jumping Straight Up or Back then that would be something but why bother with it on the way down… Jumping MP works just aswel… although it does leave her Foot Dangling in the air… waiting to get Clipped.


#88

I don’t understand how learning to input a certain move one way makes you more susceptible to doing it accidentally when attempting an entirely different move. The fact that the inputs for DPs and QCs overlap a bit can always cause mistakes in certain situations.


#89

Not true, the delay from dive kicks blows up throw tech OSes on defense and a bunch of other stuff. Being able to change your jump timing that close to the ground is a huge deal.


#90

If you ever want to go back and give it another shot, I’ll just put it out there that I don’t think very many people use their pinkies at all when playing on stick. You can simply shift your hand a bit and press the further-right buttons with your ring finger. That may work better for you. :slight_smile:


#91

For whatever reason I never liked those… infact other than the The Timer And Health Bars I don’t like anything else being added to the interface. I am a DoA player after all… although I guess it wouldn’t be that bad because if given enough time players don’t always check the DP Timer to see if their move is ready… they just kinda sort of have a sense of how long it takes to fill up.

That is definitely a possiblity… but it would still be ultimately easier than it is now… and in the future maybe somebody else will whine on and on about it and then they could fix that one too.

You know what they say, theres always Room for Improvement.


#92

LoL…in that selection I only played Rocket League and as far as I can tell it doesn’t insist on being Difficult… I might be difficult but it doesn’t insist on being Difficult. Nobody’s saying: “Hey man… you can’t make The Boost Feature One button…” probably because it already is One Button.

I’m assuming its the same thing with Counter Strike… Trying to hit a moving target the size of a pin whilest you are moving too is obviously a super human feat… but its not something that insists on being difficult to do.