Done with KI

Ive been playing the game since it came out and i feel like the game has been going down hill since its release. It takes forever to load a game and 4 people in a row played rash.

massive rant in bound

the following is an opinion. please be advised.

I seriously hate this character with a passion. it may be fun for the people playing him but in my opinion hes broken as hell. so many juggle options, a recapture, a superior backdash, and wall splat ender that puts you in the corner no matter where you are on the stage. a lot of characters in the game dont even have half of these. i was going to say im shocked he doestn have a projectile but his wrecking ball is even better than any projectile they could have given him. his block strings go on forever and for characters like glacius and sadira, its hard to punish; which leads me to the reason im leaving. the game is way too reliable on match ups.

im aware you can always come back from a match but sometimes it can be ridiculous. i always hear top level players saying things like "thunder and jago is a 4:6 match up " or “kim wu and (any character) is 1:9.” it feels like the game focuses too much on risk reward factors or YOLOing and because of those come back factors (counter breakers, instinct mode, perries, etc) it some how “balances out” these short comings…?

other fighting games let you see who the opponent is picking during the character select but why not this game? (maybe because they know that i will turn off the game as soon as i see rash. lol)

counter breakers have always been kind of annoying but it started getting ridiculous as soon as air counter breakers came into play especially with orchid’s air grab and tusk’s OTG.

instinct modes were resourceful but over time, they have grown to be a little bit too powerful. why do some of them have multiple functions? (arbiter’s perry AND overshield. jago recovering AND throwing two fireballs, and dont even get me started with glacius. thank god for wulf’s nerf [even though it doesnt make sense for him to do the same damage since he all buff lol.])

i wouldnt mind the counters if they were well executed but the fact that hisako can cancel moves into a counter is just plain dumb. youre already keeping an eye on her instinct to make sure she doesnt cancel into safety, you gotta keep an eye on the shadow meter in case she tries a full screen fire-ball invincible move, and now you also have to make sure her wrath meter isnt full???!! look, i know im not top level, and other players may not have a problem with it, but thanks to this, you have to GUESS whether theyre going to throw out a counter at ANY TIME in the combo. i know i know i know, its a fighting game im supposed to read the other player but come on guys why stop there? make a character with 5 different meters if you dont want to draw the line anywhere. its just too complicated.

kim wu’s counter…why? okay lets pretend shes a perfectly balanced character with no issues (she isnt.) did she seriously need a counter!!! she doesnt have to be exactly like the original kim wu, but this just encourages players to be super risky and what happens when they lose the match with her? what do they learn? “man idk i guess i shouldve timed that counter better.”

i know a lot of this is nit picking but holy ■■■■ im not even scratching the surface. i love how much care and love went into this game but i cant help but ask them why this way!?? i know the results arent an accident. they were designed with these choices in mind but why?

why did they change fulgores medium laser? look i know the original wasnt as reliable but now you have effectively made the light version almost completely useless.

why did they give spinal a dash cancel? people will say what they want but the reason he was so damn broken in s2 was because of that dash cancel. think about it, his rushdown game is super godlike because of that and in conjunction with his teleport/skulls shooting, hes a really good zoner to. some of his set ups can be almost impossible to block.

the point of this post isnt to boycott the game. yeah its a rant but im positive im not the only person that shares this sentiment towards the game. yeah its an opinion among many others but you cant deny that the approach couldve been better. if its good enough for you, great. continue playing the game. i’ll be back when ultimates return with a more balanced roster and hopefully a different approach to balancing characters. im probably going to regret even posting this but whatever.


i guess the feedback id give (seeing that this is under feedback to devs.) is to make the game less complicated. anybody can playt a complicated game but youre going to alienate A ■■■■ TON maybe even the majority of the fgc. but hey thats just the opinion of someone who isnt “TOP LEVEL” lol, right kiets?
should people like me just stick to single player? haha

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Rash has a wall splat from anywhere from the screen? What? From what I read, you don’t feel like learning match ups and feel it is unfair because you can’t beat them. Fulgore’s previous medium laser was too strong and they changed it. Light laser is harder to shadow counter.


g i t. g u d.


um no. im not trying to brag but my win ratio in ranked is 100W-20L. its mostly because i decide to spend more time in exhibitions. i do this because in my opinion the best way to learn is to jump right in but i dont want my shortcomings to reflect my rank score. ive spent countless hours playing every character in the game and i wouldnt have had the incentive to make this post if it didnt just happen to me several times. compare the wall splats.

i honestly thought kiets was being sarcastic when he said it was the best move in the game since i never saw anybody use it. if anything people use medium lasers more often from my experience.

but no its not that im lazy. ive spent 1000+ hours playing this game. i shouldnt need to spend more than that to know the match up. thats the point im making

You spent more then 1000 hours learning one match-up? Why? That sounds like a waste of time. Plenty of fighters don’t allow you to see the opponent’s fighters either. You’re thinking of local matches. Online, no dice.

But hey, that’s fine. You can leave. I hear GG is gaining steam.


no lol

"ive spent 1000+ hours playing this game. "

match ups between all characters.

mortal kombat, GG, skullgirls, marvel, the only one off of the top of my head that doesnt do it is SF but im sure theres mors.

Doesn’t sound like very much over the span of 3 years. :confused: Well, 3 3/4 actually. But a measure of time doesn’t say much in games. Since people can be still bad despite investing plenty of hours in games.

Evolve is a prime example of that.




lol youre completely missing the point. even if that wasnt a lot of time (its more than i put into any other game other than smash bros) its to show that i care for the game enough to learn the match ups. there isnt even that many characters so im pretty sure even a couple hundred is plenty but whatever. opinions opinions.

Fixed for accuracy.

Well, at least you warned us it was a rant. And you will probably regret posting because when you post something like this you are really just inviting people to argue with you. It’s a new thread, which it didn’t have to be, and you are calling special attention to yourself by saying you are leaving. So, what can you expect?

First, don’t pretend that you didn’t just lose a whole bunch of matches, get mad and then post this. Everyone who writes these threads always claims they rarely lose, but nobody believes you. “I never lose, but some of these characters are ridiculous and unbeatable. Imean, I beat them all the time but it’s just no fun…” Yeah, sure. Okay, you lose a lot of matches to Rash. What are you going to do about it? Figure out how to beat Rash or quit? Those are your choices. Rash is beatable, even by Glacius and Sadira. No one here would ever force you to play. If you aren’t having fun, find something else to do.

The rest of your complaints are kind of random and all over the place. Are you complaining that Kim Wu’s counter is too strong? That’s a first. You don’t like Fulgore’s medium laser because it makes his lights laser seem useless. Ok. Counter breakers are… Actually I’m not sure. You’re complaining that people use air counter breakers too often? Again, that’s a first. It’s pretty easy to avoid this - don’t break. And remind me why this is such a problem with your stellar win ratio?

Look, everyone gets angry sometimes. But if you want to critique the game try to be coherent. A lot of this is “why did they go right when they could have gone left?” It’s not really fair - they have to go somewhere and you can always say “shoulda gone the other way.”


true. idk i just feel like a lot of people left the game without any explanation so i figured i would give my reasoning.

im not pretending i didnt but why does that matter? these are just opinions ive always wanted to get out there but didnt until i was motivated enough to.

lmao look man if its such a huge deal to you here;

sorry i didnt give the exact record and sorry the game doesnt let me retrieve my score in exhibitions. im sorry my entiore post is invalidated on the grounds that i lost a few consecutive matches. some people are voacl about their opinions and some arent. i chose to vocalize.

why does it even matter? the point of this site is to give feedback and opinions. if you cant handle it then maybe you shouldnt be looking on forums.

i didnt say kim wu’s counter is strong at all. i didnt agree with them giving it to her in the first place thats completely different from saying its strong.

yeah the whole incoherent thing was just a result of me holding in all these opinions for a while and not posting them on the forums for a while. had to start somewhere.

its not as simple as going left or right. its a whole project and i know its not easy. just change the fact that people are leaving. me posting this isnt going to change that fact.

You know you can break juggles, and his recapture is especially easy to break.


And people are coming. It’s a stalemate.


I don’t actually care about whether you are good at the game or not, so I apologize for not being clear. I’m just trying to say that if you are going to post a salty “I quit!” Thread be honest about how you spent the time immediately before posting. You were halfway there.

I’m also not suggesting your complaints are invalid because you’re bad at the game. That’s not something that matters to me (I consider myself an intermediate player at best). But I can’t figure out what some of your complaints are, and I don’t know what you would do instead. Take Kim Wu’s counter. It wasn’t clear to me what the point was. The complaint about “what do they learn by losing?” Is just random and doesn’t really follow. What does that have to do with her counter? You can say the same thing about any aspect of the game.

So, if you want your feedback to matter, you have to support it with some form of logic or evidence. “Here’s a bunch of stuff I don’t like,” isn’t all that useful. Also, don’t go to “a bunch of people are leaving this game.” That’s anecdotal at best and not something that is relevant to your particular situation. It’s just trying to artificially amplify your opinions and their outcomes by fantasizing that you represent a large group of people. There’s no real evidence to support that.


@EROGEMASTER I’d be happy to help you practice any matchup that you would like to learn. It’s apparent by your rant that there are certain things that you haven’t quite figured out…

Here’s an idea - break everything down. The way your rant is constructed it seems to me like you’re being overwhelmed unnecessarily. Take 1 thing you have issue with from your rant, and learn all you can about that one thing (@Infilament’s guide over at is a good place to learn about each character’s individual tools). For example, ask yourself, “why is Rash’s wrecking ball so good?” Then find out why - look at its frame data (is it safe to do or is it not?), the distance it travels, its effects on hit or block (such as pushback, hit/block stun, soft/hard knockdown), its special properties (like armor), etc.

Once you figure that out, think of all the things you can try to do. Knowing the frame data, which attacks beat it? Can you jump it? Duck it? Back dash it? Block it (high and/or low)? Punish it? …and so on.

It’s not as hard as you might think. It just takes a bit of forethought and persistence.

I don’t recommend quitting - you don’t learn that way. :wink:


I’m not even sure where to start here. Rash’s blockstrings go on forever? Wrecking ball is a good move? Counter breakers are annoying? Counters encourage players to play risky? Spinal is a good zoner?
You say you’ve put the time in to learn the match ups but I don’t see how anyone could have put that much time into learning match ups and still make Rash complaints or think Kim Wu’s counter affects her entire gameplan and playstyle.

I’m pretty perplexed by your rant. It’s fine to rant, but you have to make some cohesive sense.

The game is reliant on matchups? Of course, it’s a fighting game. Most fighting games are incredibly reliant on matchup knowledge.

Other fighting games let you see who is being picked on the character select screen? The only other modern game I can think of that does this is MKX. None of the Capcom games let you do this, and while I haven’t played every single FG online, I doubt this list is very long at all.

Instincts are powerful, sure, though S3 has generally less powerful instincts than S2, and even S1 had a few extremely powerful ones (Sadira and Fulgore especially). Instinct is a strong mechanic, you’ll have to make your peace with that.

Complaints about counters are weird. I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to keep track of Hisako’s wrath (basically, “has she attacked recently” is all you need to remember). And virtually all of Hisako’s wrath cancels into counter are just guesses, so throwing out a counter “at ANY TIME in the combo” (I will assume you mean blocked pressure here, not combo) is more of a bet for Hisako than a bet for you. Kim Wu has a counter because she… does? They are pretty rare in KI, I dunno why you’d question why a character has one. She has one because they decided it was part of her character. It’s not too much more complicated than that.

They changed Fulgore’s medium laser because it was probably the best move in the game. I think it’s still exceptionally good. Light laser has lots of uses still, since it is one hit and a low. Spinal is not a zoner by any stretch of the imagination.

And this is the most confusing of all. Some games are more simplistic (SFV), if you are in the mood to play a more simple game with more straightforward options, feel free to add that to your games list. Some games are more complicated; KI is rather complex for beginners, but I don’t think it is beyond anyone who puts 1000 hours into the game like you have.

I dunno, man. Ask some people around here for tips on the matchups you struggle with. KI is a deep game, I’m sure there are lots of things you haven’t considered yet. It beats ranting about things that aren’t even problems, that’s for sure.


Lets be super real for a second. Spinal was really good in S2 due to the meter drain mechanic combined with increased skull generation. Dash cancel is fine but its not the reason he was good.

I hate Rash but this made me LOL! Seriously quit becasue random people coincidentally played Rash? Come on! I hated rash and thought he was broken for a while but I played the hell out of the match up and now he doesnt scare me as much as he used too. I learned the match up!

You are always going to dislike the character that gives you the most trouble. Right now I hate Arbiter with every ounce of my soul… he is broken as hell! But Im not quitting the game and Im going to learn the match up and my play vs him will get better.

You have just hit a brick wall on your skills and you need to progress instead of quit.

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