I recently picked up cinder and would like to know what his bad MUs are and why.
I like trying to work on the bad MUs so in case I ever run into one during a tournament or anything I can work around the disadvantages the best I can
Isn’t that something you’re supposed to figure out yourself? I mean it is YOUR Cinder playing, not just “Cinder.”
In my opinion:
-Jago
-Sabrewulf
-Kim
-Gargos
-Maybe Glacius
1 Like
Don’t be rude man, the guy is just asking for help!
5 Likes
Wasn’t my intent, just saying struggles are not just dependent on the character, which is important to note.
Sorry?
1 Like
I’d always heard Glacius was a tough fight for Cinder. Beyond that, anyone with a 3 frame invincible reversal can give him trouble, since you can then just DP through most trailblazer strings. I also personally think Hisako does well against him, though I’d probably still peg the fight as even.
Yea you are supposed to figure it out yourself but since I’m just learning it could be just me not playing the MU right or just something I’m struggling with not so much cinder as a character, so I just was curious as to what other people who play cinder think.
I wasn’t going to use all the answers as gospel but just wanted to look into what people thought
With hisako I’m finding that arm burnout enders are helpful since her rekkas and range all come from her naginata which fans the flames but this is also coming from ranked where some people don’t care about the white life lol I definitely wanna play the mu more tho
Also @SonicDolphin117 you didn’t offend me or anything I understand where you were coming from lol
1 Like
I think the Cinder/Hisako matchup is sort of balanced because of the arm fiyah… #RipMyGhostWaifusArms
1 Like
Like I said, I think the fight is still a 5-5. Arm burnouts are the devil, but it’s not too hard for her to run away from him until she stops burning if the Hisako player is smart. But I think Hisako pressures him very well to be honest. Heavy rekkas blow up fireflash and backdash, and TK air-ORZ’s do the same. It’s not enough to make the fight 6-4 or anything, but I like my chances whenever I see a Cinder on the screen.
Typically anyone with long range normals tend to be a problematic matchup for Cinder.
In most fights I have, the most troublesome matchups I have are typically against Gargos, Kan Ra, and Glacius. Given Cinder’s most powerful distance closing tool is his Trailblazer, anyone capable of keeping Cinder at bay and removing his mobility from his toolset is extremely difficult for him. Trailblazer’s low priority, despite is being a special is easily beaten out by good normals. So these three characters tend to give him a great deal of trouble. There are also other factors that make these three troublesome as well, but the biggest factor is the enormous range these characters have and some of their attack patterns that completely de-power Cinder’s greatest asset, his mobility.
I typically don’t find this troublesome, if you are pressuring the opponent correctly, as from the correct range, he’s safe from DP retaliation, but from point blank, a masher could punish and counter attack. However, you could say the same about a lot of block string pressure from various characters, which makes this more of a general statement than anything attached to a Cinder matchup. It’s more about applying Cinder’s pressure correctly, making them afraid of pressing buttons, and generally pestering them to the point of making their own mistakes.
Jago, Sabrewulf, and Kim, I wouldn’t call them bad matchups. Jago’s normals have good range, but his game can’t put enough pressure on Cinder to keep him out forever, and to add to that, Cinder actually has a VERY good midscreen game, which gets better with meter, but is solid on it’s own. In these matchups though, Cinder has to rely less on outmatching normals, and more on using his specials and other tools more effectively. Cinder’s HP is most likely to lose to Jago’s HP at close range everytime, but Jago’s midscreen tactics versus the specials Cinder can employ to punish and prevent are what make the difference in this fight.
With Kim, Jago, Sabrewulf, Orchid, etc., it tends to come down to who has better fundamentals, and careful use of tools, meter, and situational reads.[quote=“STORM179, post:10, topic:17766”]
Like I said, I think the fight is still a 5-5. Arm burnouts are the devil, but it’s not too hard for her to run away from him until she stops burning if the Hisako player is smart.
[/quote]
I agree, Hisako has a good chance against Cinder, but this is a fair fight. Hisako has some ranged normals, and her counter and air specials are nothing to disregard, but Cinder has a few options unique to this matchup that actually can remove her counter as an answer to some of his pressure.[quote=“STORM179, post:10, topic:17766”]
TK air-ORZ’s do the same.
[/quote]
Then they are doing fireflash too early, but I think that L.Inferno is a better answer for this move, at least if the Hisako player telegraphs it using a off the screen side jump.
I would say his hardest matchups belong to:
Gargos, Glacius, and Kan Ra.
Challenging but do-able:
Tusk, Riptor, ARIA, Fulgore, Thunder, Maya
Most of the others I feel are pretty even, and mostly dependent upon player skill. The exception would be Kilgore, but I can’t comment on that matchup yet, as I haven’t really played this one to know yet.
I am speaking specifically of trailblazer approaches, not midrange. If Cinder is using trailblazer and he doesn’t open you up with the first hit then he is DP punishable, period. This differs from other character frame traps as well, in that once Cinder has committed to a trailblazer he is -3, period. He cannot simply choose to block instead of going through with his follow-up - he is punishable. He can avoid the DP punish through awkward approach angles, but that’s about it. If you block a trailblazer and have a DP, you can punish Cinder.
I am speaking specifically of a tiger knee’d air-ORZ, the instant-air version of the move. When timed properly it will cause a reversal fireflash to come out wrong side, leaving Cinder open to punish on the whiff. Delay the fireflash if you want I guess, but that just means you’re open to whatever standard meaty pressure I might use instead, most of which will also beat LK fireflash when you’re finally able to mash it out.
I have dodged DP followups by using the afterburner, though whether those dodges were against a frame perfect reversal DP or not are up for debate. I would like to test this before saying that is 100% on the dot.
Okay, gotta admit, I forgot the tiger knee version, and you’re right on that one, though most Hisako matches I’ve played don’t utilize the air ORZ except as jump ins. I don’t see a lot of people take advantage of the instant-air version.
I’ve learned through a lot of experience (namely being punished) that Fireflash isn’t that great an answer to a number of Hisako’s tools, so I try to refrain from using it so much. Against Hisako, most of my punishes tend to be throws, but then that means you gotta be on the lookout for wily players who use her command grabs to great effect and become throw invincible.
I apologize though, I only considered the air ORZ from a jump in, which I see a lot of players do, and punish appropriately.
With respect to EZMode89, that is bad Hisako play, and bad play is never a good baseline from which to draw conclusions about any MU. Arm burnouts are very good against Hisako, but not for any reason showcased in that video.
2 Likes
Well meaty M trailblazers on the ground offer +frames if done at max range so nothing is going to punish cinder then. I doubt any version of the air ones are safe (excluding the H version since it crashes into the ground) since he’s still up in the air after doing one. Would have to further test that to be 100% sure though. But as of right now (as it’s always been) M trailblazer from range is safe (well + actually).
ARIA doesn’t deal with a lot of PD very well in 3.6
This is a 6-4 matchup for Cinder IMO
1 Like
Well, yes she does have problems with PD, but she’s got a solid zoning game that can give Cinder problems when used correctly. Her assists can also help shut down some of Cinder’s approach. Still, the system changes could have tipped it into 6-4, but to me, given her excellent specials, normals and overall gameplan, it feels like a 5-5.
Just my thoughts on it.
Maybe it’s because my usual Cinder matchup is TDB ShadowCageNinja
I’ve seen @UABass playing him on his channel lately, and he also popped up a lot in Bass’s 18 minute long montage. He’s definitely a sharp Cinder player, but so is Bass. What I would give to have talent like that, or play guys that strong.
2 Likes