Character Tiers

General Discussion
1

As I have not seen one recreated yet (did a quick search), I’m tossing it out there. Tiers!!

What do tiers mean?
Well for this particular case it should be noted we are not taking into account player skill gate requirements. That should be started as its own merits debate.

Tiers, at least in this case, are about movesets of characters being played at their possible near perfection against one another.

The divisions lend to explanations:

God Tier: There can be only 1. Doesn’t matter how much knowledge the other player has, if they don’t have this character, there isn’t much of a chance (if any). This should not be.
This was likely the case for EVO’14 winning Sadira. Though due to the immaturity of the game and knowledge of her, perhaps she shared S-Tier.

S-Tier: 3’s company. This means that 2-3 characters are only competitive against each other and picking anyone else is a very hard battle to say the least. Perhaps Wulf and Sadira shared this at EVO’14/pre-S2.
For such a small roster, it’s not so bad. For a large roster, it’s bad.
There are no matchup issues other than this is the only choice.

Top Tier: FINALLY, some balance. This is where you hope 4 or more characters hold with each other competitively. The rest of the roster has a rough time against these 4 or so but against each other it’s all in the player’s hands.
Usually matchups are even or slightly more in favour across the roster.

High Tier: A character that floats between Top and Mid. More debatable on role in the sandbox than most. Seemingly devastating in the right hands, not so much in other just as skilled but different minded players. Can’t quite place but definitely competitive in the roster.
Tend to have the greatest spectrum of possible matchup issues.

Mid Tier: Capable of taking on High or Top tier characters but really have no chance against S.
Tend to have even or less than even matchups. One or 2 matchups end up slightly in their favour. They feel low in games with S tier and/or God Tier.

Mid is the lowest you hope a game feels amongst its roster.

Low Tier: Nearly every matchup is a disadvantage with maybe the odd 1 or 2 being even.
Would barely be playable against High tier characters.

Joke Tier: A concept or flat out joke that stayed in the game… We hope.

So, there it is:
God Tier: There can be only 1.
S Tier: 3 amigos rule the game.
Top Tier: 4 or more are fun play against each other.
High Tier: Can’t quite place Top or Mid.
Mid Tier: Playable but requires great game specific skill, or a low skilled opponent, to be "competitive."
Low Tier: Not really playable against most, if any character unless you know they’re a nOOb.
Joke Tier: No seriously. Is this a joke?

Where do we stand?
(And of course, it’s all debatable!)

2

To avoid creating sub-ranks, alphabetical order;

Top Tier:
ARIA
Fulgore
Kan-Ra
Thunder
Sabrewulf
Spinal

When played at the top of their game, it’s very difficult for anyone else to stuff these characters except by each other.
You may notice that Teleporting and Invulnerable Dashes make these characters near equal!

High Tier:
Aganos
Glacius
Jago
Maya
Orchid
Sadira

When played at the top of their game, these characters seemingly go toe to toe with everyone. Never really close to one sided but capable of near perfect results against flawed opponents.

Mid Tier:
Cinder
Hisako
Riptor
TJ Combo
Omen

These characters require supreme discipline just to remain competitive against equally skilled opponents using other characters.
They’re not down and out against the higher tiered characters but they certainly have their moments of bad matchups against the Top tier.

Low Tier:
Don’t believe there is a Low Tier unless someone can show a specific character being stuffed by the majority of the cast on a consistent basis.
And I mean stuffed consistently.
It’s one thing to say something is difficult and another to be impossible. Low Tier characters have a lot of impossible situations, not just difficult ones.

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3

Great list @thyReaperMC, although I think TJ might be High Tier. He seems like he’s got more going for him than the others in Mid Tier. Just my opinion though, I don’t actually play him much myself (I’ve played against quite a bit though)

4

There are a few characters that I’d say kinda float between these tiers. Sadira, Sabrewulf and Fulgore are borderline top tier to me. While Omen and Aganos might be a half-notch below everyone in the mid-tier, but I wouldn’t go nearly as far as saying that they’re low tier. Aganos just needs some minor tweaking, I think and he could be a lot more viable than he is now.

Right now, I’d say:

Top Tier:
Spinal
Thunder
Kan Ra
Fulgore

High Tier:
Sabrewulf
Sadira
Jago
Maya
Hisako
TJ Combo
ARIA

Mid Tier
Cinder
Orchid
Glacius
Riptor
Omen
Aganos

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5

Tiers are hard atm just because they are so compressed.

I would say Top is Spinal/Kan Ra
High is everyone else
Upper Mid is Aganos/Omen/Riptor

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6

I wouldn’t put Kan-Ra as Top Tier simply because he has no wake up game when there’s no Sand Trap. He can be pressured early in a match and lose his first health bar in a flash before he can activate Instinct.

Spinal’s Top for sure though, along with Fulgore. These 2 just don’t have bad match-ups. I find everyone else does though.

7

I do intend to come back round to him with more specific reasonings. More for all. Won’t have the time till Monday or Tuesday to pop those up.
More-less you’d place Ra at High or Mid because his wake-ups are seemingly absent like Riptor?

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8

Yeah I’d still put Kan-Ra in High. I just find him to be at a big disadvantage early in the fight if he didn’t have the time to put down a Sand Trap and without Shadow Meter. Apart from that, he has a very solid game no doubt. I agree with Riptor in Mid - she does have that back-tail flip thing on wake up, but it’s not very safe.

9

You wouldn’t put Kan Ra top tier cause of no wake up yet you put Spinal up there yet he also has no wake up !?!?

Makes no sense at all by your “No wake up logic”

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10

My Top 4 in this Order
Aria
Kan Ra
Fulgore
Hisako

Everyone else is battling each other out for that 5th place spot.

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11

True, Spinal’s wake up is kinda absent. But his teleportation makes up for it in my book.

12

His teleports are punishable by smart/good players. Even if you cancel it with a skull into another teleport, we just patiently wait it out to punish. Your other option is to cancel that into his sword move (dont know the name) but even then, smart/patient players will block and it still wont open us up
Spinal is seriously mid tier. I dont understand why people have him so high on tier lists. You can just meaty him for days or Option Select.

13

I don’t base it all on wake up (although I may have made it seem that way hehehe) and his teleport is for sure punishable. My point is just that Kan-Ra can be mauled at the beginning of the fight and there’s not much he can do to get out of it. I find that to be a significant weakness for him.

14

I simply do not ebelive in tiers especially with KI. Because this game still relies on the skill of the person using them. Sure characters will have advantages over the other like Glacius’ defensive options are great against Cinder. But that doesn’t mean anybody who’s playing as Cinder can’t beat Glacius.

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15

While he doesn’t have a ton of options, Kan-Ra can make separation for himself at the start of the fight. Down-HK is one of his better Anti-Airs and puts up a Sand Trap and Air-HP creates some space.

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16

I believe that there are no characters in this game that aren’t capable of winning a tournament. Some are just better than others.

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17

I agree, except for Aganos. I’ve yet to see a truly dominant one that can take on any character.

18

Someone out there will take the challenge and be the one Aganos that will dominate. There must be someone.

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19

Zergkiller and Cupcake are pretty good Aganos players and i think Zergkiller only plays Aganos now.

20

Fulgore: the beast!

Fulgore is a character type that needs the tightest control over their abilities as it was/is too easy to make this THE go-to for all seeking to master the game. A character that contains a balanced moveset that also includes aerial and teleportation specials is already powerful by inherent tools. While one does not outright seek to make a tiered character, this is an intentional exception. This is either a top tiered character or not worth the effort to touch unless looking to beat up on lower skilled players.

S1 was a little too restrained for the game’s mechanics, making him Mid Tier back then… Maybe High. While Reactor Charge and Auto-Triples were a keen idea on building that needed combo-trait meter, the idea was to remove pressure or become too readable to do so. Counter intuitive to a system already with many counter systems in check.
S2 so far has managed to massage the intent of Fulgore into Top Tier realisation. Fulgore is now, nearly a God or S Tier. The tools are there. They’ve always been there. But now they’re there for those that earn them through solid fundamental play and/or offensive pressure. 2 things KI seeks to reward at its most basic levels.

Yes, Fulgore starts out with 0 resources. Yes, turtling and using the zoning tools of Fulgore keeps him “weak.” Rightfully so. If Fulgore has just 1 pip of Reactor, he has a teleport in or out of a special. If Fulgore has 2 pips of Reactor, he has a special into a teleport into a special. Or vice-versa. If Fulgore has 3 pips of Reactor, he has an option to special or teleport and mixup from there with near complete freedom. With solid pressure, he can build another pip of Reactor due to full spin and opt to teleport out OR earn a special-combo for the wake-up to repeat.

The try-force to keep him in check:

  1. Unlockable neutral game traits with Reactor levels.
  2. Consistent use of zoning tools, blocking and being damage can force 1 pip to take 13 seconds to gain.
  3. Requires equal to or greater knowledge of the opponent’s moveset/tools.

If it wasn’t for these 3, Fulgore could all too easily be a fighting god… That is the intent of the program after all :wink:

A fourth check to the character is by extension of the mechanics, dexterity! But this is not about the tools so much as an encompassing factor;
Fulgore is a high skill gate character for his power not only because of the in-game knowledge to us him effectively against another opponent is exponentially greater as you go up the skill rankings, but because the mix-ups needed for fast and ferocious gaming also requires precise stick control between neutral and combo game mechanics.
Having to dash, jump, block and simply move also has to consider inputs needed for quick and efficient special ability input use. Everything about Fulgore’s stance tells of his possible actions and it is only the quickest of the most precise that move between the needed stick actions to remain as unpredictable and offensive as possible.

When used by a knowledgeable player with the dexterity to execute, it’s almost impossible for Fulgore to lose.
It’s the Shadow and Combo Breaker systems that allows opponents of Fulgore to stay out of combo, while knowledge of Fulgore’s options and stances also allows for the very important Yomi portion of neutral game defense.

What are considered lower tiered characters than Fulgore are those with very limited offensive and/or defensive mix-ups against him. Either by limitation of special diversity or due to predictable movesets, it’s only the most quick, damaging and/or more varied opponents that stand what I call an equal chance to him. (Mix-ups for the all important mind game is what puts most of the top where they are.)
Jago and the like are more than capable of taking on Fulgore. However mistakes must be heavy on Fulgore or his opponents must make nearly every read possible to stay in the game in those matchups, when at relatively equal skill levels.
It is by virtue of Thunder and Wulf’s in-your-face pressure and damage, and Instincts, that they remain in the top tier.
More on that later :smile:

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