This is a great and thoughtful post. But I would be careful about thinking that if KI was on PS4 it would make the numbers at tournaments significantly higher. The PS4 is less of an FGC juggernaut and more of a “Sony forced Capcom to make the Ps4 the tournament system for SFV.”
I don’t argue that it wouldn’t hurt, and I’m no fanboy. But about a year ago, all I heard was that a PC release would “save” the tournament scene and really open up the game to a new audience. The PC release has been great and the game is fantastic on PC. But here we are all fretting about low tournament numbers just like last year.
No one loves KI more than me - it has totally changed my gaming habits. I built an arcade cabinet. But the reality is that the “FGC” is really the “SF Community” and it has carried some other games along with it. KI can be a viable game but the idea that it will compete with SF in the SFC is wrong. I know fans of other games will challenge me on this, but can anyone imagine an EVO without a SF game? Can you say the same for any other franchise? If Capcom said “no SF at EVO” the event would be gone within two years. SFV had a terrible release by all measurable characteristics, and reviews of the game are mixed at best. But it immediately shattered records for EVO entrants. Because that’s the community that goes to Evo.
So don’t get me wrong, I like your post and I think you are right that KI has some obvious strikes against it. But if we keep putting the brass ring on releasing for other platforms ==> SF numbers at tournaments we are defining “success” for the game as something that is impossible.
You make good counterpoints, so it’s all good. yeah the ps4 thing was meant to be one factor of many to explain the lower playerbase. I get the sense that the majority of regular gamers are only gonna buy one console for the generation as their major tech investment, and the ps4 seems to be winning. I certainly grew up like that. Having enough spare cash to buy up all the consoles you want and/or buy $800+ pc’s just doesn’t seem mesh well with people who become dedicated to fighting games.
It’s been said before, years ago in other threads, but the harsh reality is that KI is a niche game in a niche genre. Look don’t get me wrong I’ve loved the franchise for 20 years and it’s the only game I play these days. I’ve certainly done my share of showing friends KI, taking a group of us to Combo Breaker, talking about KI as the deciding factor in what to play… and none of it has led to new converts. Thousands of dollars of pot bonuses and sign-ups are awesome to see for SFV… but it’s still a drop in the bucket compared to the millions at play for MOBAs. Then within the FGC, KI seems to be fun to watch, but fewer seem to be sticking with it.
If we all love the core idea of having a fighting game based on long combos… the cross section of gamers that appeals too is just not going to be enormous. BUT, thankfully, the strategies that IG and MS to monetize and make accessible what they can with the f2p options and combo assist seem to have proven to make MS money.
I guess we just need to stay real about what the size and scope of the playerbase actually is and the reprucussions of that size.
funny you bring that up. Apparently, considering how badly sony is doing, they needed that film to clear 1.2 bilion or so.
it did make a profit, but no where close to 1.2 billion in revenue so…Disney deal here we come
On a side note: a lot of the anger is the fact that capcom and sony are not doing that well. and they fund tournaments but its not like any fighting game is teearing up the sales chars. they aren’t fps, rpgs, or rts games.
SF V is never going to compete in sales vs Diablo, Skyrim, StarCraft, Halo, etc.
so them sponsoring them isn’t doubling sales, etc. its pretty much a wash.
So if they decide to do that, for whatever reason, a company doing well with tons more revenue and profits like MS - that is where some of the resentment comes…
if Sony was Google or Apple, no one would expect anything from MS since not sure MS could really compete with them directly… but its Sony and Capcom…
AND, in the top 8..right before finals, Keits did say something about an upcoming announcement or something…right?
It could, if it ever went full AAA and put in the content Netherrealm does. MK stands toe and toe with those other games.
That being said, people should realize a lot of people don’t go to these tournaments with intention of winning. There are hundreds of SFV players at each tournament but its usually the same 10 players that get near the top. The rest just come to play the game and be a part of the fgc.
MK is a well known franchise. It has reportedly sold 5 million units, putting it second to the SNES release of SF2 (at 6.2 million way back in 1993) as the best selling console fighter of all time. But Diablo 3 sold more than 30 million copies. So I guess it depends on your definition of “toe to toe.”
I’m not minimizing the popularity or impact - or suggesting street fighter could not be successful financially or in the popular culture. But everything is relative.
Someone in another thread summed up this topic pretty well.
The reason the SF scene is so big is because they had no other choice but to meet-up and play against each other in person. This has been there since the beginning from it’s arcade roots to today. Online play has never been a viable option for SF at all so the only way you could see who was the best was to gather up the competition in one spot, henceforth, tournaments becoming a standard. Tournaments have only grown since then because the spectacle of it all plus getting to meet and compete with others is a very big draw for people that like fighting games, and SF has that burrowed deep into it’s DNA.
KI, on the other had, has not had that same tournament following from 25 or so years ago like SF. People don’t feel as big of a need to go out to a tournament when the online is excellent enough to where you can get some of the highest levels of competition straight from your living room. The online experience being there from the get-go for KI has been a double-edged sword. Maybe if the online wasn’t as good, it would have a bigger offline tourney scene, but who knows. It could be better, it could be worse, but there’s no way to absolutely know this at all. I think the KI offline scene will keep on growing as I feel this is a game where people need to grow up around it (like, other tourney goers need to see the game in person and be exposed to it long enough. The more as they grow as a player, the more likely they are to try out other games and KI can be the closest thing to SF to them). My roommate, for example. He’s been a diehard SF fan (and so was I) since SFIV came out. It wasn’t until only recently that me exposing him to the game long enough and him watching me play online matches as I talk to him about what’s happening on screen that he decided to finally try it out. It was rough for him at first to adjust to the KI mindset where combos aren’t set in stone. After a few solid sessions, he really picked up on the game and has been enjoying it. He still plays SFV more, but he just went to a tourney out of town to a bigger city and got 4th in the KI tournament that was there after he had only been playing the game for about a weeks total worth of time. He told me how excited it made him and I think it’s started a fire in him to try the game out more.
I kind of went on a tangent there, but what I’m trying to say is:
-It’s harder to grow an offline scene when the online is top notch
-it’s gonna take a bit longer than normal to get people to go out and play the game in person
We aren’t a bunch of primadonnas, you know. Some of OGs, @TheKeits@TotalJimkata and others were traveling to events that only paid out peanuts. We went for the love of competing, the game(s), and playing our friends and rivals.
Yes. Back then, there were more bad blood among players than today, which imo, made the players stronger and everyone around them stronger.
Anyway, getting off the subject. Pot bonus or not. I attend events because I love to compete as well as show support for the game. We didn’t have “pot bonuses”. We didn’t have “sponsors”. Hell, we didn’t even have “pools”!
Think about that. You’re thrown in a massive 256 man bracket and you have to make it to finals in one shot. You know how many matches that is in losers you have to play to make to Grand Finals if you lose your first match? 16!
Sorry, getting off the subject again… you guys are doing this to me. (sheesh)
Listen up, kids. If you don’t want to go. Then don’t freaking go. The players who really care about the scene as a whole (fgc) will find a way to make it there. Boy, do I have some stories. Most of us car pooled everywhere in parent’s/brother’s/rented vans or took… yes, the Greyhound.
It has nothing to do with sales or popularity. Love. For. The. Game.
If you can read between the lines (and you rarely see me post/speak like this) but… FOH with all this bickering and whining about no pot bonus. Put up or shut up. Isn’t that the saying?
While this is true to your (or my time) - i traveled to France from Germany back in the cvs2 days (im 35 now) - this does not apply to today.
Times change - People mindset change
Saying back then we did this and that sounds like words from my grandma.
Back then there was no internet with streaming, no sponsors for the players and tournaments and so on.
Today a competitive fighter becomes interesting for competitors if there is money on the line. If you have big names that compete in those games - non big names travel to those not to win but to play against these players. Even i would register for SFV when i have a chance to play Daigo.
Imo having the mindset back then in terms of tournaments is plain wrong.
Times have changed - living in the past surely does not help
Eh, I think it’s pretty clear that if KI’s online was bad, the game would have failed 6 months after launch. The only reason KI is still getting seasonal content is because its online is good and people continue to play. While I do think having good online convinces some people that traveling to tournaments isn’t worth the hassle, those people wouldn’t even be in the KI scene at all if it weren’t for the netcode.
Well, I hate to be pedantic, but the existence of pools doesn’t mean you play fewer matches. If you lose your first round, it will still take you the same number of matches to make grand finals, whether everybody is in 1 pool or you split the pools up. Pools is just so that organizing schedules is easier for everyone involved. But yes, the existence of pools at all means that the game is popular enough to need this type of organization, which is good.
I think the big thing that’s different is that there are so many tournaments now. In 2016 it’s more than it’s ever been; there are something like 74 SFV ranking events this year. That’s more tournaments than weeks in the year. It’s no longer the case that you can maybe plan to go to Evo and one regional in the state next to you for fun… now you have a dozen really, really awesome tournaments all over America alone that are worth your time, and all of them are streamed by professionals and have sponsored players attending.
Even if you just count the events where KI has a presence, attending even half of these tournaments is just not feasible, even if you really love your game. In the early to mid 2000s, you might travel for one event a year if you were lucky enough to even know that such an event existed.
Thats what i was saying - the in the past mentality should stay in the past. Its different now.
When a tournament happens nearby and professionals are attending some people take that opportunity to play vs them and visit the event. If no pros are there - no one cares if you won. CEO will be a great event and many players will be there but surely most of them arent there for KI.
I think the reason this blew up is because Larry’s popularity came from his prominence with KI. He’s made top 8 and I’m sure won tournaments. He is better than most of us would ever become at a game we love and enjoy playing. That being the case, whether he knows or not, he is a leader in the community. Your words now have power, and people want your opinion, and place value on it. Saying you won’t go to a tournament because the pot isn’t high in the context he did leaves a bad taste in many people’s mouths. He could’ve just said he’s not going because he can’t afford to go and he only budgets for the two big KI events. No one would criticize that. But his tweet, quite honestly, came off as insulting to the TO, and lacked the perspective of a leader. If you can’t say it properly in 140 characters then don’t. Recognize who you are and what you mean to the community, take advantage that your voice has weight and use it to encourage growth, not discourage progress. He was wrong. Period. If you can afford to go, go to the tournament. If you can’t, don’t, but don’t throw blame in other’s direction. Love the game, play the game, have fun with the game.
Growth (sponsors, prizing, etc) STARTS with attendance.
If people wont show up because the prizing isnt there, the Event Director can’t get financial support from sponsors for prizing BECAUSE attendance is low.
So if you view this as a “Prizes first, attendance second” thing, you are looking at it backwards. There is no way around it.
I honestly wish I could go to more events. CEO for the past few years has been the one event that I get to make it to, but it looks like I won’t be going this year. Still though, I feel on the “Growth (sponsors, prizing, etc) STARTS with attendance” thing, I just wish there we more things to attend that were close to me.
Any advice for starting a fight club? lol! I honestly think it is just me in my town.
When I entered at Combo Breaker, I entered because I wanted to show my support for a game that I love and have some fun. I even got my brother to enter. We knew we weren’t going to win, didn’t care, and had a blast. So yeah, attendance first and prizes second(I would probably say having fun second then prizes) should be the mantra of which everyone should adhere to. That way, it becomes a win-win for everyone involved.
