Can somebody compile point by point why Season 3 has such lukewarm reception? What changes transpired between seasons that made pros so negative?

KI is a quite complex game, and most of our pro players have demostrated several times that they know nothing about how to balance a game

I have seen people complaining about easy-to-identify stuff (recapture, flipout…), but that’s only scapegoats. These mechanics were important, but it’s not that they DEFINE the game as other stuff does. There were more impacfull changes that changed the game more drastically(to name my favorite: combo breakers producing a flipout)

And if you asked some of these so negative pro players if the game was actually that unplayable or terrible, some of they said that the game was actually in a great spot, but needed 2 or 3 changes. Still, this sector speaked about the game as ■■■■.

We have a game in which all the cast is viable, very few (and in very fewer moments) could be considered bad, and with unique mechanics and flavor, but was ■■■■ talked because it actually “was almost perfect”

The flawed reasoning of some of these individuals it’s something super irrational to me, and they can’t even understand how much damage they did


This particular issue did lead to some things that made some characters stronger. Some characters are at an advantage after a combo breaker. Thunder being the most notable example especially in the corner. Wulf on the other hand is actually at a disadvantage and kind of kills him when he fights a grappler. I never care if a wulf player breaks me as a result. Idk if things like this were intentional but it didn’t truly return things to neutral like it was touted unfortunately.


Some characters were stronger after a breaker in S1 (Glacius, Thunder), some were stronger after a breaker in S2 (Kan-Ra, others), and some are stronger after a breaker in S3. It’s possible that a person’s favorite character is weaker than before, but I don’t think this is a fault of the balance, it’s just a byproduct of the fact that not every character likes every position on the screen. So whichever position you choose to put them in (S1, S2, or S3 breakers), there will be some characters happier than others.

Even if we were to normalize the breaker distance to be point blank (or full screen, or whatever in between), there will be some characters really happy about that and other characters sad about that.

So I’m not sure I agree with your assessment that it’s “not a return to neutral”, because by definition it certainly is. Some characters might not enjoy the neutral distance they’re placed at but I don’t think this problem is solvable. It’s possible you could try to tweak certain distances on a per-character basis (basically making a balance adjustment rather than a system change), but I’m pretty sure there is no way to make every character perfectly happy here.


Its just immaturity, period. Lots of trendiness too, so many kids that just blindly follow and repeat what their favorite player does or says. NO offense to anyone here but from my experience at live events in the last 3 years… its a very immature crowd and scene. That doesnt mean everyone is immature…but the majority is. And being that Im a grown adult it can be hard to even verify why Im even there sometimes. lol

IM about to go play some matches…see you guys online!


^ True story

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I need to clarify it. Thunder is + after he breaks. So even if you break him it’s still his turn. They stated they wanted breakers to return to neutral to keep things like aganos from getting 80% off of combo breakers lol. I just don’t think it was intended for some characters to just be able to attack right away after a break. Nor for some to be - after one.

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I thought that was the idea though?

From the S3 patch notes:
“Ground Combo Breakers cause Flipout and are between -1 and +2”

So it sounds like they wanted most characters to be plus after a breaker, and maybe the few characters that are minus had to be that way because it was as close as they could tweak the animations without making them look really weird. Breakers were +120 in S1, and around +50 in S2, so my guess is they wanted to keep the breaker at marginal plus frames so that the offensive player doesn’t have infinite turns.

I guess you’re suggesting that everyone should be 0 after a break (which sounds fine to me) but I also think +2 for the breaker is fine, especially since the distance isn’t point blank. And being minus after a break sounds a bit rough but my guess is they tried to minimize this as much as they could.

I’m actually curious which characters are + or - after a break now, and what the numbers actually are. I’m too lazy to do the spreadsheet though, maybe someone else who is interested will do it.

I know wulf and riptor are -. Thunder and raam are +. Think spinal is - as well.

Ok, because I was curious I just did a few characters right now. These numbers are for the person doing the breaking (so a + number means the breaker recovers first).

Jago +1
Thunder +1
Spinal +1
Riptor +1
Raam 0
Sabrewulf -7

So yeah, Wulf seems to be the clear outlier here, and I’d wager it’s a mistake (ie, not intentional). One of those things that maybe we could have gotten fixed if we had reported it back during S3, but probably won’t be fixed anymore.

I honestly felt bad for keits. Poor guy just wanted to watch some high level play of his game but he could never do it or comment openly without getting bombarded by angry pro players. I still remember the beatdown where he literally got chased off the chat, that was messed up.


I didn’t really notice wulf until me and Paul played a couple months back.

It’s a shame. I got to talk with keits quite alot before he bowed out. I liked hearing his insight on things.


Alright, I lied.

I did the numbers:

Yeah, I’m guessing not too many people noticed the exact number (although they may have suspected something was weird). As you can see in my other post, for the most part the data is pretty good, it’s just a small handful of outliers. In general I think the breaker system is doing its job, although there will of course be differences when characters interact from far range, because some people have faster normals etc there, so it can make some things feel like negative when they really aren’t.

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Me too… he can be kind of sarcastic but he is really cool and really smart when it comes to FGs and KI. Hell I learned a lot just from listening to his commentary on one of my sets a KIWC.

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Can we somehow repair the damage done to the KI community?


Probably no, but we can try to repair part of it.


Just play the game, share with others how much you love it, share knowledge with new players, and encourage people who may like it to play it

And leave every inch of negatity out.

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Hate to say it but, trolls got what they’ve always wanted, but now no new developer is picking KI up.



Actually when I go to tournaments Ki still isn’t really seen in a bad light by the rest of the fgc. An example at ab8 ki got alot of respect from the major streamers at the event since we ran it well in what was otherwise a terrible tournament. Other players I’ve talked to said they do find the game exciting. So it’s not really seen in a bad light despite the negativity. Often times I do hear about things the game did better than other fighters even when talking to major players from other games.


Well then, maybe this game has a chance to get its own solid niche in few years.