So the story out of CEO that no one is really discussing from what i see is that Sadira got her way into top 8 and finished 4th with Damien (or Kalypso) running her. Finishing behind players/characters such as Nicky/Mira, Storm/Hisako and Valoraxe/Cinder.
I won’t lie, i’ve never played against him but some of the nonsense he was pulling off was nuts.
Simple question, if you watched him play his game (hopefully) are you still of the mindset that she’s as low tier as most peg her as?
Sadira has a lot of difficult matchups and has to take many risks to get significant damage. She’s very hard to be successful with for similar reasons to a character like Hisako, except with more counterpicks.
People definitely sleep on her though. Calling any character in this game unviable is your funeral.
You’re right Damien is one of the best Sadira’s in the world, but I’ve also seen him do crazy stuff with other characters. He’s just a great player.
Sadira isn’t a bad character and I win a ton of matches with her, but that doesn’t mean she’s top tier. As @MnTLetalis stated just because Damien can do crazy stuff with her doesn’t change the struggles she has as a character.
A lot of the tech he uses is beyond the reach of your average player.
If anyone is interested in Sadira, I do advise watching his vids on YouTube as they are informative.
I’ve learned a lot from him and it’s certainly helped me.
His reactions with Sadira are amazing. I remember he used Aria once against me too. He also beat my poor Gargos with Sadira. I could only give him a fight with my main but the moment he poped Instinct I was dead
In short, he doesn’t only have a great Sadira but he is a very good player Indeed.
Ive played him and I have never thought she was low tier. Currently she is my worst enemy…I just dont know what to do to beat her on a high level. I cant break her juggles, and she always seems to doge everything I throw at her.
I have to basically agree with @SonicDolphin117. It doesn’t really prove that Sadira is not low tier or that people are sleeping in her. But it definitely proves that KI has relatively compact tiers and that Sadira is tournament viable if played by a skilled player.
I mean, Fulgore is still a top tier character but did anyone use Fulgore in top 8? So it’s not a correlation. But the fact that anyone can play Sadira into the top 8 at a major event - and one that was hugely stacked with great players, shows by definition that the character is viable.
Gameplay in general does not provide an impression of the character.
For instance If a day 1 player was playing Gargos and gets bodied online they might say, “What a trash character.” This is the same thing but in reverse.
I do think people are sleeping on Sadira a bit though. I dont think shes an amazing character, but definitely underrated. People dont really look at her on paper enough and they feed her through experience. IMO shes the hardest character to play in the game and is thus considered almost worthless by some.
Ehh. Sadira’s actually a rather basic character. Rushdown with air vortex. Other characters like Kan-Ra, Aganos, AIRA and Mira have kits so complex that for most of them required Seasons for people to truly find their potential.
Sadira’s a character that heavily relies on hidden tech that can confuse and irritate an opponent rather then overpowering and cornering them. Not only that but her risk vs reward leans way too much into taking massive risks with rewards that seem too small for the naked eye. Add in her low damage and abysmal defense and most players would find her underwhelming.
No one wants to say that she’s bad or that she is not viable. Rather the issue is that she works much harder to achieve the same results that other characters have while carrying her innate weaknesses.
Her crazy setups have crazy high execution and so you never really see them in competitive play. For example she can meaty widows drop (cr. mk in air), and if it hits in the last few frames of its animation shes at least +4. But the timing is so specific that you need specific setups for it.
Also her neutral game is very adaptable (I made a whole post about this in the Sadira Forums) but for alot of people changing your neutral game is really hard. From what I remember even Kalypso didnt do that. Actually a ton of Sadira players dont change their neutral game up.
Also her ground game is pretty solid. But its also pretty hard because her ground game is very fundemental based.
She can also vary her offence a ton, plus her vortex game is super strong. However, making your pattern unreadable and using all these options can be challanging.
General pattern: She has a ton of great tools, but they’re difficult to use.
One more example: counter hit MP. MP on block is +1 so its pretty damn good. Great hit box and a 6 frame startup (I think). You can shimmy with it and on counterhit you can hit confirm into ex recluse or LP. But again this is a great tool to have, but hit confirming that is really hard.
She has a low entry level but a high bar, that personally I think no Sadira player has ever reached.
Doing well in one tournament doesn’t mean the character is slept on. For example, Daymein might have played extra well that day, or maybe had some good variance go his way, or maybe dodge many of Sadira’s bad matchups (ie, had a good bracket). Similarly, if Nicky doesn’t make top 8 with Fulgore in the next major, suddenly Fulgore is not a terrible character.
People need to be level-headed about these things. Strength of a character is assessed over long periods of play, consistent results, and, in the case of characters under- or over-performing (for example, Mira before recently), what aspects of play people are missing or overvaluing.
I’m glad Daymein did well in a stacked event, but I don’t think it necessarily speaks that suddenly Sadira is much stronger than we thought. You’d have to point to exactly which aspects of Sadira play Daymein was using that we haven’t already taken into consideration in order to make that argument.
Also, I’m quite glad that topic title said “on” instead of “with”.
Essentially, this is where my thoughts were when i made this post.
Sadira has been a character that may have found her most use and success in the S1 era when she was a very strong character with very good players running her. Once her loops and some things were patched, she took a nosedive and seems to have stayed in that nosedive for the better part of 2 seasons. So the strength of character has been that it’s not really there.
I’m taking nothing away from Daymien, he’s very good. And he’s been one of a handful of consistent Sadira players. Quite possibly one of the more innovative players with her though, and he’s proven that through a long stretch of time though his own play a la his “Into The Web” series of sets.
I get your point about pointing out things he’s doing that haven’t been taken into consideration; i might rewatch his games to point out some specific examples. But even without that, i think it’s a fair discussion point to ask if people think she’s untapped versus “unviable”.
Also, @Infilament, i had a urge to go get breakfast this morning…[quote=“Infilament, post:14, topic:21344”]
Also, I’m quite glad that topic title said “on” instead of “with”.
…and now it’s turned into an urge to hold down last night’s dinner. Thanks…
Sadira is by far one of my hardest match ups, sicne with characters I have (save for Cinder) she can easily stuff anti-air attempts if she throws her heavt webs, though I am happy to say I making better progress in squishing her a bit here and there.
Even so, never understimate Sadira, she’s still just as rough as she can be in season1. in my opinion of course.