Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf (KI is featured!)

@JEFFRON27 and @MDMMORNING

Not to mention this is one of the reasons why Fighting games are finding it difficult to get more players in as well. Do enough to make a fighting game friendly for both competitive and new players. This way, a fighting game can keep thriving by getting more new blood each time. Heck I’ve talked to several friends of mine who said that was one of the reasons they didn’t want to touch a fighting game.

@JEFFRON27: You either didn’t read anything above, or are being intentionally obtuse just to further carry your poor-sport attitude. Either way, it’s no longer interesting. Your issues are more a matter of “sucks to suck” - and that’s okay.

@justathereptile

I get what you’re saying. I don’t necessarily disagree.

What I’m saying is I don’t think that every upcoming fighting game needs to be made “easy” or “noob-friendly” on the principle that fighting games are difficult. There are plenty of noob-friendly fighters out there (SFxT, SFV, pretty much any NRS game, GG/BB/MvC3 even has easy-input, kinda like CAM) that are more than happy to be training wheels. To me, it seems like you’d forsake those that have, can, and do play these games for those that may play, and I think that is an error in judgement.

It looks like MvC:I will be the milk-and-cookies Marvel you guys have always wanted though, and I guess that’s great. I hope it’s something we can all enjoy.

I mostly just wanted to gripe about how Capcom doesn’t nerf characters, they nerf entire games.

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I think what hasn’t been factored into “needing KI” is the fact that every interaction between two opponents is counterable. knowing a guys tech really negates buffs.

you sir, are a beautiful mind. keep pushing the paradigm :blush:

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With Fulgore’s throw range, he might as well be a grappler

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I wasn’t trying to say that it should be noob friendly. think of it as walking an uphill path. It’s easy but as you advance it gets stronger and harder to climb up the hiill. KI has something like that (correct me if I’m wrong on that). The point I was trying to make was trying to makewas to make a game workable for both sides. Make it too unfriendly for noobs and very little progress is made. Making it too noob-friendly doesn’t help much either cause if you make it too easy, then there would be no reason to make it an effort.

Also for the record, I’ll play MvC: I if certain characters make it into the game. Call it odd, but characters are a major factor as well when it comes to fighting games for me.

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@MDMMORNING Oh trust me I read what you mentioned, but just because I did, doesn’t mean I’m gonna change my attitude about the mechanic you like. You love infinits, that’s fine. For me, the game stops once you get caught in an infinite. It’s like getting caught in a triple ultra, only it’s in mid game so it’s alot worse. I won’t change my mind about that.

On that note, I don’t mind getting punished in a game for a mistake, but I would rather be able to actually keep playing the game then do nothing but sit there.

But as I said, if you like it, good for you. You play what you want. To each their own.

In the case of KI, I can somewhat agree because KI’s balance and gameplay keeps you and your opponent engaged and nothing is solid. However I don’t issues with burfs can be so bad because at the end it’s always the players that can make the game fun for me. Not because a character has this crazy move that makes “winning easier” But even so the relationship between moves that are “OP” and moves that are “nerfed” and player skill level is a messy one. Sometimes characters that get buffs can simply lose because of the player. But on the other hand, characters that get nerfs can actually win a match still even if it’s not as easy as it use to be.

Correct me if I’m wrong on this bro. but basically, your feel like infinites are more likley to put you in a situation where your not really playing, but just sitting there and being the attacker’s punching bag. Is that correct?

Exactly, might as well be a dummy in practice mode since you have no way to stop the opponent once it happens. Sure a simple answer and typical response is 'well don’t get caught, scrub!" but even if I can easily avoid infinites it wouldn’t make them anymore fun. Basically it’s like you get your hand cut off for bumping into the wrong person. "Didn’t block correctly at full health? LOSE THE MATCH!. That’s basically what infinites feel like.

I’m not saying don’t give people the ability to do combo breakers, but for crying out loud it isn’t needed to be turned into a training dummy. I may not like MVC3 because of this, but hey still like the music : p

Also @MDMMORNING fun-tension is subjective. For me, FUN tension is when you and you’re opponent are both one hit away from death. Not when the match starts and you lose your entire team in less than 30 seconds while the other guy still has a full life-bar.

Just cause I don’t think “having a pure one side match with the one good combo” is fun doesn’t mean I’m “mad about sucking at the game” Infinits disengage you and make it less fun, that’s simply how I feel about it. If you don’t like my opinion, that’s perfectly fine, no one said you had to agree. Sorry that MVC: I isn’t gonna be “hardcore” enough for you.

I’ve already made my statement, not going to push this any further.

where is the ki footage?? was i blind??

I don’t know. Feels like each season Buffs or gives characters a bunch of stuff. The nerfs only come in small quantities to a few characters.

@justathereptile I think we’re seeing things pretty much the same way. I’m glad one of you is the reasonable raptor.

I agree with this notion. For me, part of what makes the tension of MvC fun is that the one-hit-from-death tension is at match start. Not everyone likes that. It’s not like MvC is the only fighting game.

I never suggested such a thing, nor is there reason for you to be so petulant. I’ve been civil.

They’re re-releasing MvC3, so I’m happy regardless. I guess that just means I won’t run into you online. Cool.

@MDMMORNING
Glade I was able to clear up that misunderstanding

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You call civil but when ya use terms like “milk and cookies” you’re assuming I can’t enjoy a challenge? you may not of been been tto question my ability to be competent on an obvious level, but I can tell people being subtle about taking insulting tones. I was simply looking to meet you half way : p. Words can bely your tone in this case.

At the end of it all, we are on different stances. If infinites are not in MVC:I I hope you’ll find something else to enjoy about it even if that mechanic may or may not exist there. I’m sure there’s more to Marvel than just infinite combos.

They did. But understandably some of the nerfs did make some players change the way they play.

I have never played MvC “I don’t like brightly colored games”, so does a infinite combo work like the combo loops that Scorpion can do in MKX? Scorpion can do a combo that ends in a stun, and before you can recover he starts the combo all over again and creates a loop. 3 loops wins the round. If this is what MvC is like then I fully understand.

Its similar but there is no stun involved.

In MvC continued combos scales the damage down pretty quickly. The infinite combos requires a lot of execution/timing and even though they are capable of taking a whole life bar, they usually don’t (unless X-Factor is popped) because after doing about 3-4 loops the damage is scaled down so much that it is almost insignificant. Usually players drop the combos, sometimes intentionally or unintentionally, to transitions into other set ups.

That is how I understand it at least.

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Scorpion has a vortex but you can block the next hit after the teleport, it’s not an infinite at all. The reason your getting hit is because he is +18 after the teleport hits so your pressing buttons when you shouldn’t

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Pretty much, aside from what the guy above me just stated it’s kind of like that. The difference is you don’t get a chance if the combo continues.

Fantastic way of putting it.

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What I find ironic is that you always play footsie based characters.

But yeah, good post man :slight_smile: