An appeal regarding the ranked achievements

I really suggest that the achievements for winning 20 ranked matches be modified so that if you complete (not win) 20 ranked matches with a character you earn them. I’ve been trying to earn these ever since I’ve had the game and they are near enough impossible to get with the game having been out for so long. I think it’s also fairer on new players so that they feel that they’re doing ok as well. There’s no clearly defined improvement/ skill in the process of winning 20 ranked matches, only a mindless grind that makes the achievements not feel like their namesake.

I strongly urge you to modify these achievements so that players don’t feel as if they’re working towards an unachievable goal.

What are everyone’s thoughts on this suggestion?


I like it.
its a way for everyone to get all the achievements.
good idea, i really hope they do that.
of course a lot of good players not gonna like that idea, but i like it.

I know a lot of my friends who play KI don’t play ranked cause they not good enough.
this would give them a chance to get the ranked achievements too.

I don’t get it. What is wrong with the achievement?

The stipulation that you have to WIN 20 ranked matches. Maybe winning 10 and completing 20 would be better for structure, but I don’t think it’s fair to force players to learn characters to a very high level if they don’t want to but want to get all the achievements. I’m not saying the achievements should be easy, just saying that they shouldn’t require a player to deliberately stretch their comfort zone and luck quoter to maximum. The only way you’re going to get the majority of those achievements would be through luck, imho.

IMO this sentence doesn’t make sense. To win 20 matches in ranked you don’t have to learn a character to a “very high level,” you just have to play as them for however much time. That being said, you still have to at least be proficient with them (or just play with CAM on in the lower ranks), and that is not in any way asking too much. To get an achievement in a game you should at least know how to play said game as far as I’m concerned.

You are in fact expressly saying it should be easier. Furthermore, the majority of achievements in every game “stretch” you to some degree, as many achievements ask you do to things you’d never do in regular play. Thing is though, winning 20 matches in ranked is something most people will achieve just by playing the game normally.

That being said, and switching gears slightly (and this is strictly my opinion), if you are playing a game JUST to get achievements, you are doing it wrong. If you DON’T know how to play KI, and are frustrated with the requirements of getting a specific achievement, that isn’t the game’s fault, thus the game shouldn’t have to be changed to fit your specific needs.

No. I can’t say I’ve seen a KI achievement that was luck based.

I’ve tried to argue in as civil a manner as possible, blockquoting to indicate your previous responses. I apologise for any spelling/gramatical errors in advance, though I have tried my best to proofread this counterargument-based post as I’ve checked it through and adjusted it.

IMO this sentence doesn't make sense. To win 20 matches in ranked you don't have to learn a character to a "very high level," you just have to play as them for however much time. That being said, you still have to at least be proficient with them (or just play with CAM on in the lower ranks), and that is not in any way asking too much. To get an achievement in a game you should at least know how to play said game as far as I'm concerned.

I have been playing this game for over a year now, also clocking in nearly a year in ranked (if memory serves though that could be a little incorrect). I will remind you again, not in the form of an excuse, but in the form of simple recap, that I have no sight whatsoever. I respectfully state that the fact that “you don’t have to learn a character to a very high level” and “you still have to at least be proficient with them” are two entirely contradictary statements. As much as I have stated that ranks and levels mean virtually nothing, it implies to some degree that you have had to play to a high level to gain the level of proficiency you have with a character.

Moreover, if it were about just having “to play as [that character] for however much time”, I probably would have got the achievements by now, or at least been closer. The key thing to note here is the barrier between time spent playing, learning and taking a character into ranked, versus the number of new players employing frustrating and sometimes unbeatable tactics (depending on the match up) in addition to the understandable fact that they have sight and I do not (apart from in a few rare cases, most of which, if not all, have been encountered in the arguably friendlier settings of exhibition).

You state that “playing with CAM on in the lower ranks” will help. I’m fighting my way through with combo assist on with characters such as Kan-Ra and it’s not helping me, I can quite confidently say. I played with the mode active since day 1 and have hardly turned it off as it’s been a useful tool for hit confirms and the like (until the changes for Season 3, but that’s another topic entirely). However, regardless of whether I turned combo assist on or off, I believe that these achievements would be just as hard, if not even harder, to obtain were I to turn it off and try and play what some would term as “the old way”.

You are in fact expressly saying it should be easier. Furthermore, the majority of achievements in every game "stretch" you to some degree, as many achievements ask you do to things you'd never do in regular play. Thing is though, winning 20 matches in ranked is something most people will achieve just by playing the game normally.

I was not “expressly saying” that I wished for the achievements to be “easier”. I did, in fact state that the achievements should not be easy. There is a marked difference in both of those statements, though it is simple to understand how they can be seen as one and the same at times.

In your wording you made it appear as though I am asking for the game to be toned down so as to allow every new player, however familiar with the game, to get these achievements without trying. However, my intent was to say that this should not, in fact be the case - I am merely saying that the task itself, so that players can feel like they’re actually progressing (no matter how slowly), should be modified in the stipulations to account for a new influx of players and the number of players who will know every MU inside out.

Winning 20 ranked matches, in terms of a task, is not (as you seem to rightfully or wrongfully assume)), “something most people will achieve just by playing the game normally.” You seem to think, judging by your tone (as I have interpreted it), that it’s a walk in the park to just go in, win 20 ranked matches with each characterand come away smiling at a perfectly flawless record without having taken a single hit of damage in the process of fighting through what I estimate to be 400+ matches. The fact of the matter is that it’s not as easy as you seem to think, especially if you’re having to deal with players who can see everything you do and react to it with the speed that hand-eye coordination provides to hearing sounds and reacting instinctively, for example. This request isn’t just meant so that those who can’t see the animations can easily get the achievements either, it’s to allow for those who can’t play ranked very often for example (and near enough everyone else)to feel like it’s worth progressing. What do you get other than those 20+ achievements in ranked and the competitive one for winning a single match with each character? If I recollect correctly, the answer to that is an incomparable 3:

  • One for getting out of qualifiers
  • One for getting to Gold tier
  • One for getting to Killer tier.
If achievements are meant to make you feel like you've achieved something, I can tell you that whenever I go to my achievements and see that there are 23 achievements (if I've got my character numbers correct) that I'll probably be lucky to get if I manage it at all, not truely because of a lack of skill but because the odds are already stacked against me and others in similar positions to me it's a gnagging feeling essentially. Not in a big way either, it's a gradual element that builds and eventually forces me to try and earn at least one more. There are a number of achievements that I can't even check how I'm doing as they involve seeing menus that I would require sighted help to navigate and determine what other tasks I have to complete, for example the mural artist achievements. It's not that I wouldn't try and get those, but without an easy way of tracking those statistics (a feature that I've often requested and other individuals agree shouldn't be too hard to impliment), I am thus relying on others inorder to progress in the game, which I do not really believe to be fair.

How do you think it would feel for a new player who has just played through their qualifying matches and just gained a tier to see the win 20 ranked matches with Kan-Ra" or “win 20 ranked matches with Sadira” as achievements, just to name two? When I first saw those I just thought why should I bother. Not like a giving up instantly kind of a thought, but really beginning to doubt if I could ever get those regardless of however long I spent working on those characters.

Moreover, newer players going up against individuals who had this game from the Xbox One’s launch won’t find it any easier than I am, I’d conjecture to state (I’d be happy for some player feedback from new PC players on this matter to see if this is correct or otherwise).

That being said, and switching gears slightly (and this is strictly my opinion), if you are playing a game JUST to get achievements, you are doing it wrong. If you DON'T know how to play KI, and are frustrated with the requirements of getting a specific achievement, that isn't the game's fault, thus the game shouldn't have to be changed to fit your specific needs.

I am not playing the game just to get the achievements; I am trying to progress as part of the game and that progression includes, somewhat unsurprisingly, the process of obtaining the achievements within said game. Therefore, I conclude that I am not “doing it wrong”. Moreover, I would consider myself, not without justification I’d say (though not intended in an arrogant way) as a person who does in fact “know how to play KI” (having got to Killer tier towards the end of Season 2 and fought hard to achieve that rank). I am merely frustrated at the requirements as I feel that they are unfair on players like myself who for whatever reason are continuously beaten down and do not wish to be forced to (as I’ve concluded might be the only way) continually reset their ranks just to get 20 ranked achievements with a character that they might not be good with (for specific reasons like the ability to micromanage health, perform juggles etc), or with a character with a very poor/limited game plan in general such as a character that can be easily out zoned regardless of the on-paper stats.

I believe in the long run, were the achievements made less grind-centric, that the overall mood around ranked and progressing through it could change for the better and that the morale surrounding ranked would most certainly improve with the introduction of, if not achievement changes, tiers of achievements below that (say winning 5, 10 and 15 and then 20matches with each character for example). However, this tiered concept might only make things worse, it’s possible.

No. I can't say I've seen a KI achievement that was luck based.

I have a feeling that you are taking my statements, at least inthis case if not in others, far too literally. You are extremely if not completely unlikely to have seen a literal achievement that is luck based in KI (other than, in essence, “demonic Luck” but that’s yet again, another tangential story that will not be discussed here). My point is that if you’re playing a character that you do not have as your main (Kan-Ra in my case for instance), there is a high probability that you will be exposed to lucky or unlucky scenarios (moreso than if you are playing with a character that you know how to use to the levels you’d use your main with). With this in mind, it is logical enough to conclude that the probability of winning a match with said non-main characters is more based around luck than skill, especially when fighting players who believe it is their mission to copy the AI by jumping around the screen regardless of what character they play and not land a combo (except for infrequent occasions) other than off of a jumping attack. It might seem like exageration but I have fought so many players that have utilised this tactic with complete impunity (regardless of what I attempt to do to avoid and prevent their machinations) that it has even become a grind in the lower tiers in the process of re-obtaining my Killer rank using my current main (Fulgore), something which i am slowly beginning to doubt will occur again unless I have a session of matches where players just stay on the ground or rather play their characters as the designers intended them to be played.

I’d like to leave you with a suggestion (not as an excuse to play a sympathy card but for testing purposes). Go into ranked, pick a character you are unfamiliar with and blindfold yourself. now play, for example, 10 matches in a row with the same character, without looking at your opponent’s stats or anything related, and see how you get on. I’d be curious to hear the results and your thoughts on the process of trying to get through ranked under these (likely unusual) circumstances.

I apologise if this post or sections thereof come off as salty. I’ll admit the game has frustrated me in various ways since the launch of Season 3, but when I tried to grind for these achievements earlier today (a process which I have been trying to work with on and off since getting the game), a large number of the pieces and reasons as to why this was so annoying, frustrating etc to me seemed to (correctly or otherwise) fall into place.

Thanks for reading this, I just felt it had to be expressed somewhere related to the game and where better to place these opinions and experiences with KI than the Killer Instinct forums where help and assistance is normally not far away?

The achievements technically did get made easier now with the requalify option. Before if you were in a higher tier you were forced to learn the character at a level where it could win in that tier, but now all you basically have to do is learn a characters linkers and enders and go win 20 matches against bronze players.


sorry but this is just not true… I have all S1 and S2 Ranked achievements except for Cinder and Shago, and if you saw me play with any of the other characters, I would be crap with all of them.
If its just for the achievements, knowing a few tools for your character really is enough to get you the wins. Granted it takes a while, but I enjoy learning a character that way so maybe its just me…

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I think they should be left as it is. It keeps people playing ranked, and it genuinely makes you improve your character as, obviously, you have to learn that character to win.
Yes it can be particularly slow to win games at the start, with a new character, but with time and patience your knowledge will grow and the wins will come.

If they were to change it, I could envisage some people (not all) would venture into ranked for the 20 necessary games then never return - thus thinning the ranked pool of players. Its a healthy environment with skilled players that provides an almost infinite amount of new techniques and set ups for us all to learn from… where as I find exhibition to be less intense, less variation of moves and set ups and so less of an experience.

I believe it might be. Nothing against you in that reply, just saying that I also disagree with your idea that learning a few tools will be enough to get you the wins. I’ve been trying to get wins with Kan-Ra for I don’t evenknow how long and I honestly can’t say I feel like I’ve learnt anything, other than that these achievements are, in their current form, beyond my reach (even as a relatively skilled player.).

I understand your sentiment, but I also feel even though I’ve been trying to grind these achievements that in trying to learn these character that I’m not gaining anything by it other than frustration.

I see what you’re getting at about the ranked pool theoretically changing for the worse in these circumstances however, but can’t help thinking that there must be a way to balance things out.

Just git gud scrublord

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I just started trying to get these, as they are the last ones I have left besides the two Killer ones (which I’ll probably never get), and the problem for me is right about when I get 20 wins I get bumped into gold, where I’m lucky to get a win. If I were allowed to stay in silver where most matches are pretty even player skill-wise, these achievements would be much more reasonable. I’m about 50% W/L in silver, and I feel like I should hang there for a while longer with that %.

So, I guess I’m saying, I wish progressing through bronze and silver was a longer process. I get bumped up out of the skill range that’s best for me too fast. If you’re in the right skill group, these are pretty fair to get.

I’m not sure whether to take that as an insult or not at this stage.

But… you have tons of wins.

And anyone can get 20 wins with about 10 minutes of lab time. With combo assist, getting 20 wins is extremely easy. i dont see the difficulty at all.

When you’re in gold and killer leagues and people are using their mains and go their hardest against a character you barely use which could mess up your w/l ratio (if you care about that).

Win/loss ratio?

The achievement is for 20 wins. Period.

I got it on this new account a couple of days ago with about 4 losses in between the games.

I didn’t say it would be easy… took me 55 matches to get my 20 wins with Kan-Ra according to the Fight Archive, about the same for the rest of the characters except Maya (controller issues when I was using her, took way longer) and Aganos who is a beast so I got his out of the way quickest. And I barely know how to play any of them properly. A few tools really is enough most of the time, but you will lose more often than not with unfamiliar characters.

Well they took the “chosen one” achievements and knocked them down from 2,000 matches to a mere 200 so anything is possible.

I suppose, but Really? do you have a source for that? Just wondering as I’d not heard that before.